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THE ULTIMATE COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO FLORIDA PUNK AND HARDCORE RECORDSTop^

UPDATED FEB 8, 2008 -- This article is a work in progress and will be 
updated on an as needed basis.  If I got anything wrong, please let me know 
and I will fix it!  Thanks to Justin Cudney, David Damage and everyone else 
who pointed out errors in the earlier versions.  Sleeve scans supplied by 
Henry Weld at Collector Scum.com

	Here are some things to keep in mind when
talking about Florida punk records.  First, most Florida
punk bands had great senses of humor.  (I think it has
something to do with the humidity down here -- tends
to warp the mind.)  Check out F, Gay Cowboys In
Bondage, Roach Motel and Lethal Yellow.
	Second, there are hardly any 1970s-80s
punk/hardcore albums from Florida.  There are lots of
7"s, but the full length LP is very unusual when talking
about Florida.	
	The most prolific independent Florida labels in
the 1970s and 80s were Open Records, Suplapse and
Destroy Records .  Most other Florida records were self-
released by the bands, often as one-off projects.
	Open Records was a store in Ft Lauderdale, one
of the few in the state that was staffed by cool people
who would take chances on independent music,
particularly punk.  There are tons of stories about
incredible finds at Open Records -- and tons more
about "the one that got away."
	Anyhow, at some point Open Records started
putting out records, including a couple of Charlie
Pickett singles and a compilation LP called, "The Land
That Time Forgot."  This 1982 LP is truly a regional
sampler, with bands of all styles from all over the state
represented, including the Eat, the Bobs, the
Essentials, the Front, the Spanish Dogs and many
more.  I don't know how many copies were made, but
they still pop up in used record bins and garage sales,
usually dirt cheap.  Open Records didn't just support
the local scene -- they helped build it.  At this point I
would also like to acknowledge the stores Yard Bird
(Miami), Yesterday and Today (Miami) and  Moon Dog
(Jupiter),  who also took chances on indy stuff, and
particularly Underground Records of Ft Lauderdale,
which carried only punk and hardcore, primarily
obscure European imports.  Wish I had a time
machine...
	I previously reported that that someone involved
with Underground Records started the Sublapse label,
but it has been pointed out by a few alert readers that
this is not the case.  		
	Anyhow, Sublapse focused on hardcore, putting
out releases by Gay Cowboys In Bondage and Morbid
Opera.
	Sublapse Records was run by Barry "Boz" Soltz
who also published Suburban Relapse, a great zine that
gave heavy coverage to local music, as well as bigger
underground acts like Red Cross , Cirlce Jerks and
White Flag.
	Another South Florida zine was Tropical
Depression.  I have a couple of issues.  If anyone has
any info on Tropical Depression or any other early
Florida punk zines, please get in touch.
	In an earlier version of this article, I confused
Suplapse Records with another Ft. Lauderdale label,
Subversive Records, which was run by a guy named
Mark.  Subversive Records released a great 7" by Ft.
Lauderdale's We The Living, the Sewer Zombies LP,
and, for some reason, the "Son Of God" 7" by
Germany's legendary Inferno.  Some releases have a Ft
Lauderdale address and some have an Arizona address.
The Arizona address is later.
	Destroy Records (and Destroy zine) was run
collectively by the members of Roach Motel, financed
by gigs.  Destroy is still sort of around.  The most
recent releases are 7"s by the Drug Czars the Gargirls
and a Roach Motel discography CD.
	Destroy was probably the most important
Florida punk label, if for not other reason than for
releasing a compilation 7" called "We Can't Help It If
We're From Florida" (Destroy Records number 2).  This
disc, released in 1983, really put Florida on the world
hardcore map.  It got killer reviews in zines all over the
place and even made Maximum Rocknroll editor Tim
Yohanan's top ten list.  Kicking off this classic slab is
Hated Youth, a Tallahasse band that sounded a hell of a
lot like early D.R.I.  So much speed and anger.
	In the spring of 1983, Hated Youth and fellow
Tallahassee hardcores Sector 4, jaunted down to
Gainesville to play a show and hang out with Roach
Motel.  While there, Hated Youth recorded a 13 song
demo.  Three tracks from that session ended up on the
Florida comp.  The others remained unreleased for
more than 17 years until December 2000 when my
record label, Burrito Records, re-issued the complete
1983 demo on 7" vinyl, minus one song that was
damaged on the master tape.  In 1985, singer Gary
Strickland left the band.  Bassist Eric Rogers took over
vocal duties and a new bassist (Tommy Hamilton, who
later turned up in the X-Band) was brought in.  They
recorded enough songs for an album, but they
remained unreleased until 2002 when I put out the
Hated Youth/Roach Motel LP on BUrrito Records.  (The
roach Motel stuff is a live show from 1983.)
	Next up is Tallahassee's Sector 4, with two
songs, including an instrumental called, "Plaid
Spaceship," that is about five seconds long.  Later in
1983, Destroy released a 7" by Sector 4 called,
"Disclexia," that is also pretty damn good.  (I got my
copy of it for a dollar in Gainesville at a time when it
wasn't cool to be punk.  While all the G-ville trendoids
were ditching their HC collections, growing their hair
out and buying Sub Pop, I was there, rumaging though
the used sections at Hyde and Zeke's, Tom's, Bobaloo's
and School Kids, picking up hardcore classics for next
to nothing.)  Like Hated Youth, Sector 4 has a bit of
unreleased material.  Apparently there were plans for a
Sector 4 LP on Destroy Records.
	Finishing out side one of the Florida comp is
Morbid Opera, a mostly-female band from Ft
Lauderdale, with three songs.  Morbid Opera was a bit
more garagey than the other bands on the comp.  I
didn't like them that much then, but I do now.  Morbid
Opera later released "Jesus Loves You So Give Us Your
Money,"  a six-song 7" on Sublapse in 1983.  And would
you believe that I bought seven unplayed copies at a
Miami Record store in 1992 for a dollar each.  They were
just sitting there, collecting dust!
	OK, so, Morbid Opera finished up side one of
the Florida comp with a bang.  Three bands and eight
songs on one side of a seven inch?  It was, after all,
1983.
	Gainesville's Roach Motel starts side two of the
Florida comp with three killer cuts of Florida hardcore
humor:  "Heart Attack," "Florida Reptile Land" and "My
Dog's Into Anarchy," the latter of which I still sing to
myself today.
	"Stage dives off the kitchen chair, lands on his
head, he doesn't care.  Around his neck are two inch
spikes.  You bet my mom feeds him what he likes."
	Yeah, great stuff.  Roach Motel also released
two 7"s on Destroy, "Roach and Roll" (Destroy number
one, 1982) and "What The Hell It's Roach Motel"
(Destroy number four,1984).  Only 600 copies of "Roach
and Roll" were made and it does not pop up very often.
The last couple of copies I have seen sold for around
$90.  If you just want to see a copy, go to Mirror Image
Studios in Gainesville, where all of the Roach Motel
stuff was recorded.  They have a copy on the wall.
	Roach Motel guitarist Jeff Hopdapp tells me that
1,000 copies of "What The Hell, It's Roach Motel" were
made, but even that doesn't show up too often.  Though
not as inspired as the first RM 7", it's still a good
record.
	"What The Hell..." was actually supposed to be
an LP.  The band recorded enough songs for a full
album and had more than $3,000 set aside for
manufacturing but, as I am told by singer Bob Fetz, the
bass player took the money and ran, never to be seen
again, screwing the world out of what would have been
a hell of an album.  (The "lost" tracks appear on the RM
discography CD and they're great.)  The band (minus
the bassist) re-thought the project and scraped together
what money they could.  They eventually picked the
best few songs from the recording session and put out
a 7".
	Destroy Records had also planned a second
pressing of "Roach and Roll," a third press of the
Florida comp and new releases by Rat Cafeteria, Sector
4 and Hated Youth, but that all kind of fell apart after the
theft.  Hodapp, furious, quit the band, moved to south
Florida and Roach Motel was finished.
	Readers of Maximum Rocknroll have no doubt
heard George Tabb's stories of his days in Roach Motel,
but if you were to pick up "What The Hell," you would
notice his absence.  Now, George seems like a nice guy
to me, but here's the story I got from Jeff Hodapp.  It
seems George went away on vacation for a few weeks
and in the meanwhile, RM practiced without him for a
big show opening for Channel 3 from California.  The
consensus was that Roach Motel sounded better
without George, so when he came back, he got the
boot.  Hey, I still love your guitar solos, George!
	One Roach Motel song, "Mad Dog," can also be
heard on the "Flipside Vinyl Fanzine Vol 2" LP and one
song, "You Make Me Sick," can be heard on "We Still
Can't Help It If We're From Florida," a sequel comp that I
released in 1992 on my own label, Burrito Records.  And
an early version of "Frenzy" appears on the "Barricaded
Suspects" LP compilation, released by Toxic Shock in
1983.  There is also at least one Roach Motel demo out
there, that I believe pre-dates the first record.  I have a
copy and no, I won't dub it for you.  I promised George I
wouldn't.  Late in the summer of 2000, Fetz and Hodapp
released a complete Roach Motel CD, featuring
unreleased songs and a live show from Miami.  In 2002,
I released the Hated Youth/Roach Motel LP on Burrito
Records, featuring studio tracks that were to be the HY
album on Destroy and a live RM set from 1983.
	Finishing up the Florida comp is Tampa's Rat
Cafeteria.  Their tracks, "Kill" and "Tax Revolt" are
pissed off and real.  Rat Cafeteria is, for me, the
highlight of the record.  That's all Rat Caf ever released
on vinyl, but several other songs were recorded that
day.  I have a tape of the unreleased Rat Caf songs and
they are pretty darn good.
	In any case, Rat Cafeteria were some scary
guys.  When I was in high school, I heard that Rat
Cafeteria was supposed to record an album but the
singer got thrown in jail and they had to use the
recording money to bail him out.  I went to at least three
shows that Rat Cafeteria was supposed to play, but
cancelled for various reasons.  They have sort of
become my white whale.  The closest I came to seeing
them play was at a house party in Ft Pierce.  Three or
four insane looking guys were smashing bottles,
pouring beer over people's heads and pissing on
unsuspecting passersby.
	"Who the hell are those guys?," I asked my
friend Terry, who was older and knew a lot more about
punk than me at the time.
	"Oh, they're in Rat Cafeteria.  They were
supposed to play tonight but they're too drunk."
	I've also heard tales of Rat Cafeteria robbing
graves for fun and profit.
	(In an earlier version of this article, I stated that
some members of Rat Cafeteria went on to form
Blemish On Society, who released a 7" in 1988.  But as
one B.O.S. member pointed out, that information is a bit
innacurate.  Here is the scoop.  B.O.S. started in
Roanoke, VA by singer Tommy Housman.  In 1985,
Housman moved to Tampa and reformed the band with
Pat Freeman, the bassist of Pagan Faith.  In 1986, Pat's
girlfriend, part-time Rat Caf singer Lynn Thompson,
joined the band.  Freeman and Thompson left in 1987.
Bass duties were temporarily handled by Rat Caf's
Jimmy McHugh.  But by the time the record was
recorded, no members of the mighty Rat Caf were in the
band.  Anyhow, the Blemish On Society 7" came out on
Kick Boot Records in 1988.  This one is not too hard to
find and still in the "affordable" price range for most.
The band split up in 1989.)
	I know, I spent an awful lot of time talking about
"We Can't Help It If We're From Florida," but it is the
Florida hardcore record.  The most important record in
the history of Florida punk.  Three thousand copies
were made in two presses -- that is an impressive figure
for a small label in 1983.  The first press of 1,000 has
red labels.  The second press of 2,000 has blue labels.
Until the early 2000s, this record would turn up in
Florida for $15 to $20.  Since eBay took over the records
collecting world, few copies have been found "in the
wild."  On eBay, expect to pay somewhere in the $100
ballpark.  One band member I met claims to have
several unplayed copies of the vinyl -- minus the covers
and inserts -- sitting in a closet.
	Roach Motel's Jeff Hopdapp recently dubbed me
a copy of a Florida compilation cassette that I had never
heard of called, "Florida Explosion."  This cassette was
released in 1985 and features a mixed bag of punk,
metal and some "alternative" music.  The highlights
include Foul Existense (Ft. Pierce), Pagan Faith
(Tampa), The Drills (Miami) and early versions of a
couple of Disorderly Conduct (Melbourne) songs.
	One Florida compilation you shouldn't have to
pay too much for  is the "Killed By Florida" LP.  This LP
is a take off on all of those "Killed By Death" and
"Bloodstains Across..." comps that have been breeding
like rabbits in recent years.  But this comp is mostly
legit, with the majority of the bands on it giving their
consent.  A few bands could not be tracked down.
"Killed By Florida" came out in 1998 and was compiled
and financed by members of two of the bands.  I helped
them with some of the technical aspects.  The plan was
to make the music available again at a decent price.
Included on it are obscure tracks by the Reactions, the
U-Boats, Roach Motel, Broken Talent, Sheer Smegma
(Teddy and The Frat Girls), F, The Essential, Gay
Cowboys In Bondage, Voodoo Idols, KTH (Kill The
Hostages), the Eat, Lethal Yellow, Sector 4, Morbid
Opera, Trash Monkeys, Hated Youth, Maggot Sandwich,
Charlie Pickett and The Eggs, Menstrual Cycles and the
Front.  Two thousand copies were made in a single
pressing.  Half have black and white covers, half have
red and white covers.
	In an earlier version of this article, I wrote of a
mysterious band called K.T.H., or Kill The Hostages.  In
the spring of 2001, after seeing this article on the
internet, one of the band members contacted me and
answered all of my burning questions.
	This record came out in 1980 and the band
name refers to those folks who were stuck over in Iran -
- I told you Floridians had a warped sense of humor.
The name was chosen, according to drummer Ron
Linton, "...to try to top The Dead Kennedys..." in
offensiveness.
	Of all the record collectors I know, I have only
seen two copies of this record.  It has a blank white
picture sleeve with "K.T.H." and the A-side song title,
"Mutant," hand written in pencil.  The music is like a
more grungy, demented version of Devo.  The band
never played live.
	The record was recorded for free in Criteria
Studios, a prestigious Miami recording facility, which
has produced records for Eric Clapton, among others.
Apparently one of the band members found a Criteria
gift certificate, good for eight hours of studio time, at a
flea market.  The certificate was in an old envelope in a
box of junk.  The guy selling the junk gave the gift
certificate to K.T.H. and they went into Criteria to claim
their free session!  I can only imagine the studio
engineers reaction when K.T.H. began cranking out
their bizzare punk.  Although only two songs made it
onto the record ("Mutant" and "Skull Bossing"), three
others were recorded that day and have remained
unreleased.
	A first pressing of 200 copies was made, but the
pressing plant put the labels on the wrong side of 100
copies.  When the band contacted the pressing plant to
report the error, the plant made an additional 100
copies, free.  So, in total, there are 300 copies, 100 of
which have labels on the wrong sides.  Now you know
the story.  Good luck finding this one.
 	The Eat is another band from the "Killed By
Florida" comp and yes, they gave their consent.  Some
of the members of the Eat now play in the Drug Czars
with Jeff Hopdapp of Roach Motel/Destroy Records.
The Eat is probably one of Florida's best-known bands
to record collectors.  Their inclusion on numerous
bootleg comps like "Killed By Death" have made their
two earliest records something of the holy grail of
record collecting.  Yeah, they are high-dollar records,
but more importantly, they rock pretty hard.
	The really rare Eat record is the "Communist
Radio/Catholic Love" 7", released on the band's own
label,  Giggling Hitler in 1979.  The two songs on this
record were recorded live at a Miami bar for extra punk
rock authenticity.  You can hear the crowd at the end of
side one.  "Communist Radio" rocks, with a great
melody and backing vocals.  The guitar sounds like a
high-octane version of the Ventures.  It still kicks my
butt every time I hear it.  I've played it for a lot of people
and they all love it.  The band made just 500 copies of
"Communist Radio" and gave away more than 100 of
them at a record release party.  As you may have
guessed, some of those records got broken, thrown out
or left on the dashboard overnight to melt in the hot
Florida sun the next morning.
	"Communist Radio" is totally worth hearing, but
I'd be hard pressed to say that any record is worth the
$800 to $1,000 it commands from obsessive record
collectors.  (I was green with envy the day a buddy of
mine nabbed a mint copy at a record convention in
Clearwater for just $10!)  Fortunately, it was officially
repressed by Brain Transplant, a California label,
around 1998.  Unfortunately, Brain Transplant only
made 1,000 and they sold out fast.  The original has a
light blue cover.  The re-issue has a white cover, some
of which were hand-colored by the band, the Brain
Transplant logo and address.  Don't be swindled into
buying a repress for original prices.
	The second Eat record, the "God Punishes The
Eat" 7", was released on Giggling Hitler in 1980.  The
band made 1,000 copies of "God Punishes...," making it
half as scarce as "Communist Radio," but it's still pretty
damn rare.  While I have seen perhaps four copies of
"Communist Radio" in my life, I have seen nearly two
dozen copies of "God Punishes The Eat."  However, I
should note that that includes the time that Eat guitarist
Mike O'Brien walked into my record store with eight
unplayed copies, wanting $125 each for them.  If I had
the money, I would have bought them all.  Apparently
the band still has a small cache of the second record
but the supply of "Communist Radio" is dry.  Mike told
me, "I have one copy that I'm saving until I'm
homeless."
	"God Punishes The Eat" comes in an absurdly
thick cardboard picture sleeve, which probably explains
why all of the copies that I have seen have had nearly
flawless covers.  I don't know where they managed to
get covers like that printed, as I have never seen a cover
like that on any other record.  The band members put
cheap, round,  yellow and red "Eat" stickers and
baseball cards in select copies.  If you find a copies
with the extra goodies, then you have found an extra
rare copy of an already rare record.  Me?  Yeah, sure I
have one.
	The Eat later released a demo, "Scattered
Wahoo Action" in 1982.  It was released as a 10" by a
Wicked Witch, a Dutch label in the late 1990s.  There are
some great songs on this demo, such as "She's Pissed
Off ('cause my Brother Wouldn't Fuck Her) and
"Subhuman," sung by the late drummer Chris Cottie,
and sounding pretty close to hardcore.  "Subhuman" is
much more aggressive than any of the other Eat songs.
	In 1995, The Eat released a  7" of new music
called, "Hialeah," on their own label, Jeterboy.  I guess
they grew out of the Giggling Hitler moniker by then.
While "Hialeah" is pretty good, it kind of lacks the
punch of "Communist Radio" and "God Punishes..."
What do you expect?  Those dudes are old now.  Ha,
ha.
	South Florida was home to many great bands
and had a virile scene all through the 1980s.  The big
clubs were 27 Birds, the Cameo Theatre, Flynns, and
Finders Lounge.  Some of the better bands from South
Florida in the early to mid 1980s were Gay Cowboys In
Bondage, F, Broken Talent and  Lethal Yellow.  All of
them released vinyl.
	The Gay Cowboys In Bondage released "Owen
Marshmallow Strikes Again," a six-song 7" on Suplapse
Records in 1984.  This record is packed with silly, high
school humor and great, memorable tunes like, "Big Fat
Baloney Sandwich."  And if you check out the insert,
you can see a photo of the band playing their first show
at a high school talent contest.  Before "Owen
Marshmallow," The Cowboys put out a 16-song demo
called, "We're Not Gay But The Music Is."  This demo
contained more of their great tunes with silly lyrics.
One song the from the demo, "Domestic Battlefield,"
appears on "Flipside Vinyl Fanzine Vol 1."  In Feb 2005,
I released "The Completely silly Discography" CD on
Burrito Records, featuring the demo, the 7" and a live
set from 1983.
	As an aside, I recently found a 7" record called
Rip Schredder's Techno Primitivism.  I can't find a date
on it anywhere, but on the label, it credits Milo from Gay
Cowboys as doing backing vocals.  The record is
mostly keyboards and vocals.  Phil Blummel, the singer
of F, tells me that Rip Schredder was a weird older
dude, who somehow played a few punk gigs, including
a warehouse gig with F and the Eat.
	Cowboy bassist Eddie Nothing and guitarist
Pete Moss also played in F.  Eddie played bass and
Pete played drums.  F was notorious for their smart alec
humor and pranks.  While other bands of the era we're
playing vehement anti-Reagan songs, F were
vehemently pro-Reagan (or so they claimed).  The never
broke the facade either; they played it to the hilt.  F also
delighted in calling the cops to break up their own gigs
-- just to see what would happen.  They pulled this
stunt at their famed last show in Ft Lauderdale, with
great "success."  F polarized the South Florida punk
scene.  I remember going to a convenience store
between bands at an F show, wearing my F t-shirt.  A
big mohawked dude jammed his meaty finger into my
chest and said, "I HATE THAT BAND," punctuating each
word with a sharp jab.
	Anyhow, the F "You Are An E.P." 12" is, in my
opinion, the best punk record (beside the "We Can't
Help It" comp) to come out of the state.  This six-song,
45 rpm goodie made lots of top ten lists at Maximum
Rocknroll.  And how did the band show their gratitude?
By refuing to pay for advertisements that had already
run in the zine.  Oh, they had the money.  They just
thought it would be funny to not pay the bill.  If you'd
like to see proof of this, check out the insert of the
White Flag/F LP.
	Either 1,000 or 1,500 copies of "You Are an E.P."
were pressed.  I've asked the singer a couple of times
and got different answers, so I guess he really doesn't
remember or it's just another F joke.  And, although Phil
says that the record came out in 1983, it clearly reads,
"1984" on the labels.  Who knows?  All you gotta know
is that it rocks.  In July 2000, I worked with the band to
re-issue "You Are An E.P." as a 7", with a previously
unreleased bonus song.  One thousand copies were
made.
	A few years ago David Camp, who produced the
F 12" and many other south Florida bands, found a few
copies of the record in his mother's garage.  Some
copies are water damaged, but a few are in OK shape, I
am told.
	As I mentioned before, F also made a split LP
with White Flag on Starving Missle, a German Label.
This record has its moments, but is not as good as the
12" e.p.  In 1988, F released their last will and testament,
the "Mess You Up" 7", on Mystic Records.  When I
asked the guitarist why they decided to work with
Mystic, he said, "Because they're the worst label in the
world."  That's F for you.
	F can also be heard on the compilation LP "Four
bands That Could Change The World" LP, the European
version, "Five Bands That Could Change The World,"
and on "Flipside Vol 1" LP.
	Broken Talent was from the Miami area.  The
"Blood Slut" 7"  that came out on True Piece Of Shit in
1984 is one of the scarcest of all Florida releases -- even
more scarce than "Communist Radio."  But for some
reason, not many people know about it.  Here's the
story, as told to me by singer/bassist Malcolm Tent.
The band ordered 500 copies from the pressing plant,
but a UPS mishap destroyed 125 copies in transit.  So, a
mere 375 playable copies are all that ever existed and
you can be darn sure that even fewer remain intact
today.  This record almost never turns up outside of
Florida.  It's a great record and should be more highly
sought after.
	Lethal Yellow played many shows in south
Florida with fellow scenesters Broken Talent, Gay
Cowboys and F.  The self-released 7", "Declaration of
Retardation" came out in 1984 on Braindead Music.
Here again is more patented Florida smart alec humor.
Song titles include, "Velveeta Cheese," "Spastic and
Proud" and "The Obnoxious Song."  Something for the
15 year old in all of us.  Lo-fi and low brow.
	Then there are a whole bunch of South Florida
bands that I don't know too much about, like We The
Living.  I remember seeing this band's name on just one
flyer ever and I know of just one person who claims to
have seen them live.  However I can say that I have seen
their 7", "Carnival Of Vice," in a few record collections.
The record isn't much to look at -- kind of dull -- but
everyone who hears it agrees that it kicks ass.  Side one
is pure, pounding hardcore.  Then on side two, they try
to goof it up with a funky song that doesn't quite work.
Released on Sublapse in 1985.
	As with We The Living, I have seen a few copies
of the Menstral Cycles "1/2 Skin 1/2 Punk" 7", but few
people can give me any more info on them.  I have been
told that the singer tried to get the band signed to Riot
City, but that never happened.  The Menstral Cycles
record was self released in 1983 on Cycles 1.  The band
address and phone number is from Hialeah, a small
town near Miami.  The record was produced by David
Camp, who also recorded F, but none of those guys
know anything about The Menstrual Cycles.
	Another mystery record is the Teddy And The
Frat Girls 7".  This band was also known as Sheer
Smegma.  The record has no picture sleeve.  The white
inner sleeve is rubber stamped, "Teddy and The Frat
Girls," but the record label reads, "Sheer Smegma."
Released in 1980; the band was from West Palm Beach.
Alternative Tentacles later re-issued it as a 12" and you
can probably still find the A.T. version in dollar bins if
you look for it.  The female singer denies all
involvement with the band and has even tried to spread
rumors of her death.  Eddie O'Brien from the Eat tells
me that the band members were Sam "Fish" Parsons
(Mouth of The Rat zine editor), Pam "Spam Ax" Axley,
Cookie Mold and O'Brien's wife, Peppy.
	I knew little about the Critical Mass "Silver
Screen" 7" until recently.  The guy I bought this from
said that it is the first punk record from Florida.  I have
confirmed from three sources that the record came out
in 1978, so this is true.  Critical Mass is the first Florida
punk record, pre-dating The Eat's "Communist Radio"
by a year.  There is no picture sleeve, just a white inner
sleeve.  There is no year or address on the record label.
And the band sounds more like an English record from
the late 1970s.
	On a trip to Florida, supercollector Ryan
Richardson met a former band member who confirms
the 1978 release date and also states that only 200
copies were made.  Thus making it the rarest Florida
punk record.  An Italian collector who heard I have this
record emailed me and offered me $1,200 for it, but of
course, I had to turn him down, which prompted his
response, "I WILL PAY ANY PRICE FOR THIS
RECORD!"  Sorry, no sale, and chill out, dude.  In 2003,
I saw a copy sell for $750.
	In 1980, Critical Mass released a 10 song LP
called, "It's What's Inside That Counts" on MCA, a huge
major label.  The songs on the LP are much more
polished, longer and more "rock."  Gone are all traces
of the snotty punkness found on "Silver Screen."  I paid
$15 for my copy, but this is serious dollar bin material.
	The Front, from Miami, released a pair or kinda
new wave singles on their own label, Foam Records.
"First Strike" 7" came out in 1981 and "Aluminum
Room/Poor People" 7" came out in 1982.  While I find
these records pretty boring, they are a good example of
early Florida D.I.Y. spirit and thus have a place in my
collection.  You can also hear the Front on "The Land
That Time Forgot" and "Killed By Florida."
	The Cichlids were a cutsey girl band that really
weren't punk at all.  The band was put together by a
record company, like The Monkees or New Kids on the
Block.  Their label was Bold Records, a sub-label of TK
Records, who gave the world KC and The Sunshine
Band and similar disco acts.
	Former Cichlid Debbie Mascaro, now named
Debbie Swartz, told me, "We were a manufactured
entity, and the minute we forgot the formula and took
ourselves too seriously, everything crashed and
burned.  But it was a fun ride."
	Mike O'Brien from the Eat laughingly told me,
"We always hated them."  They nearly got placed on
"Killed By Florida," but one of the people involved with
the project strongly objected.
	The Cichlids sound like a cross between the Go
Gos and the Beach Boys.  It's bubblegum, but I still
think it's pretty good.  In fact, one of their songs is
called, "Bubblegum."  The band released a three song
e.p, "Lifeguard Dan," and an LP, "Be True To Your
School," on Bold Records in 1980.  Fun fact:  the hairy
legs on the cover of the "Lifeguard Dan" e.p. belong to
Charlie Pickett.
	The Cichlids LP contains the songs from the 7"
and ten others, including covers of "These Boots Are
Made for Walkin'" and "14 Or Fight."  Fun stuff.  Worth
picking up if you see it.  The punky outfits on the back
cover will give anyone who lived through the 80s a
laugh.  (Anyone remember the TV show "Square
Pegs"?)
	An odd-ball band called Futurisk released an
odd-ball single, "The Sound Of Futurism" in 1980 on
the oddly-named label, Clark Humphrey Records.  As it
turns out, "Clark Humphry" is a pseudonym for the
band's leader, Jeremy Kolosine.  In any case, it's low-
tech, lo-fi new wave, like early Devo, recorded in a
garage.  A web page I found states that Futurisk was the
first electronic punk band in the south.  	
	This strange record comes with two covers.
The first is a white, sealed picture sleeve, with lyrics to
one of the songs on the back and a picture of the band
on the front.  (Yeah, they look like nerds to me.)  The
second cover is on heavy pink cardstock and fits
snuggly into the white cover.  Printed on the upper left
back of the pink cover is "Limited Edition 500."  Grab
this one if it turns up at the next garage sale.
	A collector buddy in Miami dug me up a second
Futurisk 7" from 1982 called, "Player Piano," again on
Clark Humphrey Records.  "Player Piano" is not nearly
as quirky as "The Sound Of Futurism," but is worth
picking up for any fan of homemade 80s records.
	I remember seeing the X-Conz "Do Dead People
Tan?" 7" on Tim Yohanan's want list in the late 80s, so
a couple of years later when I saw a copy, I inspected it
with interest.  When I saw that it was from Florida, I was
99% sure that I should buy it.  Then when I saw that
they had a song called, "She's My Hosebag," well, I just
had to have it.  I gave the record store guy a buck and
took it home for a spin.
	This four-song platter from 1981 doesn't have a
lot of teeth, but the songs are pretty catchy, especially
"Hosebag."  I never did see another copy, so I'm glad I
parted with my crumpled George Washington that
steamy south Florida afternoon.
	The Screaming Sneakers were a decent Ft
Lauderdale punk/new wave band with a gorgeous
female vocalist.  At some point, they moved to New
York and recorded there.  The result was "Marching
Orders," four-song, 12".  The first song is really strong,
with powerful hooks.  The other three songs are a bit
long-winded but OK.  I don't know how many copies of
this record were made, but it hard to come by, even in
Florida.  A friend grabbed me a copy for $25 in Ft
Lauderdale; a week later, I saw a copy sell on Ebay for
more than $300!  I'm not sure why such a mania would
be attatched to such an unknown record.  Maybe it's
because lead singer Lisa Nash looks so hot on the back
cover, with her huge, 80s new wave chick hair and torn
T-shirt!
	Another Ft Lauderdale-area band with a female
singer was the Spanish Dogs, who had a song on "The
Land That Time Forgot" LP.
	The Spanish Dogs were more of a rock band,
with some punk attitude, as shown on the song "Your
Daughter," the stand out track on their "Don't Sweat
The Petty Things" 7" (Ratsa Dog Records, 1982).  This
record is worth finding if not only for that song, but for
the sleazy back cover.  The Spanish Dogs also had
another 7", "Meet The Spanish Dogs," released by  Ruff
Ken Records in 1981 and an LP, "Mongol Le Gan" LP
released by Doggie Style Records in 1983 (allegedly 200
pressed).
	Yet another fantastic female fronted South
Florida power-pop/punker powerhouse is the super-
duper rare two-song 7" by the Warp.  The A-side is a
strong original tune called, "Let Me Go," while the flip is
a highly rocking cover of The Association song, "She's
Not There," changed to "He's Not There."  Wicked,
sharp guitar playing on this one and irresistible hooks.
Not an easy one to find, but worth the hunt.  What is is
with South Florida and excellent female lead singers? 
	A greatly-overlooked south Florida punk record
you should know about is the super-duper  Essentials
"Fast Music In A Slow Town" 7" (Safety Net Records,
1982.)  The first track, "Turn Off Your Radio," is not only
sage advice, but is one of the best Florida punk tunes
ever.  Very catchy.  The drummer, the late Pete Moss,
also played in F and Gay Cowboys and Spanish Dogs.
As of this writing, this record is fairly low-profile,
meaning that insane collectors from Europe are not
offering hundreds of dollars for it yet.  I bet you might
be able to score a copy in Ft Lauderdale or Miami for a
modest price, so why not plan a family vacation today?
	Also from South Florida were the Reactions, a
great rock band with a punk attitude.  Or a punk band
with rock playing ability.  Whatever.  The Reactions
made two EPs:  the "Official Release" 7" (Reaction
Records, 1980) and the "Love You" 7" (Reaction
Records, 1981).  I have heard there is a bootleg
Reactions 10" with the two 7"s on it, but I have never
seen a copy.
	One record that I never see in anyone else's
collection or hear anyone talk about is the Rugged
Edge "S/T" 7" released by the band in.  The band was
from Hialeah, home of the Eat and the Menstral Cycles.
The record was recorded in near-by Miami in 1986.
There is little other information on the record.  No band
personnel, no lyrics, no photos.  The music is up-tempo
hardcore with some rock/metal nuances, like the
Battalion Of Saints "Second Coming" album.  Good
one, look for it.
	A band member just gave me three sealed
copies of the second Rugged Edge record, the "Eclipse
Of Fire" 12" E.P. (L. Bacardi Records, 1989)  It, too
offers a hybrid of hardcore and hard rock/metal.  A few
songs really rip but few are a bit too hard rock for me.
	There have been many bands named Panic, The
Panic and The Panics from all over the world.  (In fact, a
very early version of Black Flag was called Panic.)  I had
heard about a Florida band named The Panics for years
and was beginning to think I imagined the whole thing,
when this album caught my eye at a record swap.
	The Panics.  I flipped it over and scanned the
back cover.  "Recorded at:  Sound Check Studios, Fort
Myers, Florida."  Damn, they did exist and they had an
album.  Very few Florida bands ever released full length
albums.  Sure, they look like The Romantics on the
back cover, but at last I had tangible proof of this band
that had eluded me for some fifteen years or so.  And it
is damn good rocknroll.  The speedier stuff is not unlike
the Eat.  Some of it is a little slower and more rock.  Not
bad.  Released in 1980 on Superdisc.  Although I do not
own them, there are two other Panics records: the
"Little Red Book/Kill It (Before It Multiplies) 7" released
by Superdisc in 1979  and the "Test Test/I'm A Fan" 7"
released by Superdisc in 1980.
	Another Ft Myers band that few people are
aware of is Antler Joe And The Accidents.  In fact, they
recorded at the same studio as the Panics.  Anyhow,
Antler Joe released a three-song 7" called, "Go
Commercial" in 1981.  Just 300 copies were made, but
that's not why you should look for it.  You should look
for it because the first song, "Dogshit," is pretty
awesome.  The other two songs are more of a bar-band
rock style.  I found a band member's phone number and
called him to see if he had any spare copies and he
didn't seem that surprised.  Seems a few other
collectors have tracked him down, too.  But he had no
extras to sell.  A few years later, I picked up a near mint
copy from a friend of a friend of the band.  This is the
only copy I have ever seen.  On the back cover, mine
has, "No. 267," handwritten in blue pen and in green
ink, a drawing of a skull with antlers!
	Disorderly Conduct was a great band from the Ft
Pierce/Melbourne area that not many people remember
today.  But in their time, they were one of the best and
most popular bands in the state, frequently opening for
bigger touring bands.  The band, featuring F guitarist
U.S. Ken Decter, played a hybrid of hardcore and metal,
without being speed metal.  They really had an original
sound, wrote great songs and were ace musicians.
Casey Chaos' vocal style and lyrical arrangements have
been a big influence on me.
	Disorderly Conduct made their vinyl debut with
one song, "How Old Are You?," on "Flipside Vinyl
Fanzine Vol. 2."  This song is a real thrasher, with a
couple of slow, tense breakdown parts.  I think this
song is a good representation of what the band was like
live.  Another Disorderly Conduct song, "Rock Bottom,"
appears on the 1986 compilation LP, "There's A Method
To Our Madness," on Phantom Records, an Alaskan
label.
	In 1986, Casey released the full length
recording, "Amen," on LP and cassette.  The name he
chose for his label was Dirge Records, the only release
by the label.  "Amen" is a hefty album, packed with
powerful songs and very few lulls, although a couple of
tracks get a little indulgent.  The opening track, "Crawl
Down Inside Of Me," is the strongest moment, with a
pulsing wall of guitar and a long, anguished vocal wail.
	I don't know how many copies of "Amen" were
made, but the album had great distribution, at least
within Florida.  For a few years, you could find it in
almost any record store in the state, even big chain
stores.  Until fairly recently, still-sealed copies popped
up from time to time.
	Shortly after the release of "Amen," Casey
thought the next logical step would be to move the
band to California.  Decter went with him, but drummer
Bill Erwin and bassist Scot Lade stayed in Florida.
Lade told me, "I haven't talked to Casey since the day
they left."  In California, Casey started a band called
Amen, which is still active today.
	Lade was the manager of Record Bar, a chain
music store in Ft. Pierce's Orange Blossom Mall.  He
used his managerial position to stock the store with
great hardcore releases from around the world.  In fact
it was Scot who suggested the Dead Kennedy's "Fresh
Fruit For Rotting Vegetables" LP as my first punk rock
purchase.  On other visits, Scot suggested The
Crucifucks, Die Kreuzen, "Flex Your Head," and many
more.  I'm really thankful that Scot pushed me in the
right direction when he could have just pushed me
away.
	Lade was pretty active in the scene and put on
several shows at clubs and rented halls, including a five
band blowout at the Sons Of Italy Hall in Stuart, my
hometown.  That was the biggest punk show Stuart has
ever seen and probably will never be topped.
	Beside playing bass in Disorderly Conduct,
Lade doubled as the bassist for Ft. Pierce's incredible
Foul Existense.  Foul X was about the biggest band in
the St. Luice/Martin/Palm Beach county area at one time
and headlined many big local shows.  Unfortunately,
Foul Existense never made a record, but they did have a
great demo.  Mark Robinson, a former band member, is
planning to release the demo on CD.  Mark is also a
videotape whiz and has dubbed the demo over video of
the band playing live and goofing around with their
friends.  Few copies of this video are in circulation.
	More Foul X stuff that I can remember or have
heard about:
	1.  The band played live in the courtyard of a
major shopping mall, driving off many patrons.
	2.  They covered the theme song from the
Jetsons.
	3.  Allegedly, their drummer became a cop.
	4.  They all used to live together in the Foul
Manor, a ratty old structure in Ft Pierce that got
condemmned.  Allegedly, one band member went back
and torched the house after they got throw out.
	It's a real shame that Foul Existense never did a
record, because I'm sure it would have been great.
	Next we'll move to the Tampa Bay area.  As a
high school kid in Stuart, I heard all kinds of stories
about the powerful scene in Tampa.  A lot of kids talked
about moving to Tampa and a few did just that.  In
retrospect, it might have been just a case of the grass
being greener on the other side.  But at the time, Tampa
seemed like hardcore punk paradise.
	I already talked about Rat Cafeteria.  Although I
never got to see them, I did get to see Jehovah's
Sickness, Pagan Faith, Belching Penguins and No
Fraud.
	Jehovah's Sickness never conquered vinyl, but
they had at least one demo and put on a great live
show.
	Pagan Faith was another good live band.  I
remember seeing them do a cover of "Faster and
Louder," by The Dictators that really hit the mark.  No
Clubs!, a local concert promotor, released the self-titled
Pagan Faith 7" in 1986.  About five years later, another
batch of the record turned up with a slightly different
back cover and without the No Clubs! logo.  I've
compared the vinyl and labels from each pressing and
they are identical.  It's most likely that someone found a
stack of vinyl with no covers and made some new ones.
	The music on the Pagan Faith 7" is pretty good,
but I'm not very fond of the singer's style and the vocals
are pretty high in the mix.  Still, a decent release.
	No Clubs! also released the Belching Penguin
"Draft Beer... Not Me" LP in 1986; 1,100 copies were
made.  Great, thrashy 1980s hardcore with some goofy
lyrics.  Everybody I know who has heard this record has
been blown away.  It's really good and one of the few
1980s hardcore albums ever released in Florida.  (The
photo on the back cover is classic, too.)  No Clubs! re-
issued "Draft Beer... Not Me" on CD in 1996 or 1997 and
is still available.  The LP used to be abundant
everywhere in Florida, but has been seen less recently.
Most of them have happy homes.  In 2007, I released a
eight Belching Penguin demo tracks as the "1985/1988
Demos" 7" on Burrito Records.
	No Fraud was Florida's longest running
hardcore band.  They might still be around, depending
on who you ask.  No Fraud has had many line-ups and
releases over the years, but my favorite will always be
their first, the "The E.P." 7", originally released on No
Clubs! 1986.  A later pressing appears on the band's
own label, Truth Records.  This is just good, fast, meat-
and-potatos hardcore.  No frills, but lots of oomph.
Also worth hearing is their follow up album, "Hard To
The Core," on the German label, Nuclear Blast.  The
cover is an unbelievably tacky neon green, but most of
the songs deliver the goods.  After "Hard To The Core,"
I kind of lost interest in the band's recorded material but
still enjoyed seeing them live many times.
	The U-Boats played some decent rocknroll-
inspired punk.  They released three records on their
label, Crow Records:  the "Government Rip Off" 7" in
1982, the "Dead and Desperate" 7" in 1983 and "Street
Tough" LP in 1984.  I like the 7"s but the LP is a bit too
rock for my tastes.
	Surprisingly, the first record, "Government Rip
Off," seems to be the most common; I've come across
many copies.  The "Street Tough" LP is the next most
common.  These routinely show up in Tampa for $3 to
$5.  But for some reason, "Dead And Desperate" almost
never shows up.  I understand that one band member
became a very successful crack dealer in Zephyrhills
and that another has moved to Austin, TX.
	In a similar style and with a similar history is
Tampa's Voodoo Idols.  The band self-released the
"Grunt Grunt/Do The Kirk" 7" (Veedee Records, 1982),
the "We Dig Nixon" 7" (Veedee Records, 1982) and a 12"
, "Temptation," (Veedee Records, 1984.)  I have all three.
The two 7"s are are solid, bluesy punk rocknroll.  The
LP has moments but drags a little in parts.  If you dig
the Cramps or Gun Club, check them out.
	A Tampa-area record that nobody seems to
know anything about is a 1982 7" by the Fanatics.  Four
kinda rocky songs, a bit like the Panics, perhaps.  The
record was recorded at the now-famous Morisound
Studio, which recorded many of the biggest death metal
bands of the 1990s.  A member of Rat Cafeteria told me
he saw the Fanatics opening for X in a high school gym
in Tampa, but doesn't remember much else.  Anybody
got a clue about this one?
	Up in the panhandle, Maggot Sandwich were the
undisputed kings of punk.  I think they finally called it
quits in the early 2000s.  Maggot Sandwich started
making noise in 1983 or '84 under the name Kaos.
When it came to their attention there there have been
several bands by that name, they switched to Maggot
Sandwich and have never had the same problem.
However, guitarist Vik Graham and his brother,
drummer Steve Graham, have kept their monikers Vik
Kaos and Steve Kaos to this day.
	Vik formed his own label, KML Records and
released "Dead To My World" , a great 7" in 1985.  Five
hundred copies were made in a single pressing.  The
band never re-pressed the record because they thought
it was crap.  I disagree.  While the recording quality is
low and you really have to crank it up to hear anything,
the songs are really good, particularly, "Everything I
Touch Turns To Shit."  This record features original
singer Buzz Zerk, who later left the band under nasty
circumstances.
	The band next set its sights on a ten-song LP,
tenatively titled, "Success Pool."  But during the
recording session, the singer walked out and
threatened to sue the rest of the band if they used any
of "his" songs.  The band salvaged what they could
from the recording session and released the "Success
Pool" 7".  One thousand copies were made, 500 on
black vinyl and 500 on green.  Vik gave me a green vinyl
copy becasue he's such a cool dude.  He also gave me
a cassette of the unreleased songs with Buzz from this
recording session.  I promised Vik that I'd never copy
them for anyone, so please don't ask.  And it's a darn
shame they were never released because they rock.
	Maggot Sandwich finally did release an LP, "Get
Off The Stage," in 1987.  What a fine release, perhaps
the band's apex.  Great songwriting, memorable riffs
and smart lyrics.  I love the songs, "Sex Sells," "Biggot"
and "My Florida."  Like a thrashier version of The Dead
Kennedys, perhaps.
	Then the band was quiet for a while, but in 1992,
Vik sent me an awesome demo.  The band was faster
and tighter than ever.  Some of those songs ended up
on my compilation, "We Still Can't Help It If We're From
Florida" (Burrito Records, 1992).  Many we're re-
recorded for 1993's "Murder War" 7".
	One last Maggot Sandwich tid bit:  I remember
Vik telling me that one of their records was recorded in
a Christain-owned recording studio.  The studio
engineer hated them and banned them from the studio.
Thereafter, all Maggot sandwich releases were recorded
in Vik's living room.  D.I.Y.!
	Another Panhandle punk record, also on KML, is
the Headless Marines "Crimes Of Truth" 7" (1988).
Great band name, boring band.  A lot of people
remarked that Headless Marines were not included in an
earlier version of this article.  That was because the
record is barely worth mentioning.  A real snooze, but I
will give it a mention now for history's sake.  To their
credit, I have heard they were good live.
	From up in Tallahassee, our state capital, came
The X-Band, who released a solid 7",  "Pleasures In
Life" 7"  on Yo Mama Records in 1986.  I am only
guessing, but Yo Mama Records was probably the
band's label.  (I've never seen anything else on the
label.)  It really sounds like The X-Band took some cues
from their Tallahassee hardcore forefathers, Sector 4.  I
even checked both records to see if any of the same
people were in both bands -- nope.  (As mentioned
earlier, one of these guys did a brief stint in Hated
Youth.)  For some reason, people aren't too hip to this
record, but they should be, because it is good stuff.
I've run across a few copies in Florida, but I was really
surprised to find two or three copies at Wax N Facts in
Atlanta for $1 each.  Some members of the X-Band went
on to Gruel, who released an LP on Manufacture
Records in the late 1980s.
	Stevie Stilleto and The Switchblades was a good
rocknroll-influenced hardcore band from Jacksonville.
Their first 7", "It's a Bogus Life" was issued by Razor
Records, the band's own label, in 1985.  This version
features a glossy, black and red, sealed picture sleeve.
The record was later re-issued by KML with a slightly
different cover.  The KML version comes in a
photocopied, yellow picture sleeve and for some
reason, "And the Switchblades" is deleted from the
front cover.  All it reads is, "Stevie Stilleto."  Vik from
KML told me why the changes were made, but that was
a long time ago and I fogot the exact details.
	Vik told me another story about the next Stevie
Stilleto record.  After "Bogus LIfe," the band self-
released a single, with the A-side being a cover of Bing
Crosby's, "White Christmas."  Vik said that the band put
out the record themselves, without his knowing, and
put the KML address and logo on the release.  This
way, if there was any legal flak for using the Bing
Crosby song, it would be KML's problem and not theirs.
I would like to stress that this is Vik's side of the story.
One member of Stevie Stilleto contacted me by email to
say that this is untrue, so there might be more to the
story.  Also, I have never seen this record, so I can't
comment on the picture sleeve or pressing quantity.  If
anyone has one to sell or trade, please get in touch.
	I do know that there was also a Stevie Stilleto
and The Switchblades LP called, "Food For Flies."  I
think this LP came out around 1986 and is more rock.  I
don't own the record myself, but I remember hearing it
and not liking it too much.  I think it was released on
KML, but I can't say for sure.
	Whew.  I guess that's it.  As I said before, I will
update this as new information comes to me.  So, if you
have something to share, please get it touch.




INTERVIEW WITH JEFF JEWHURST OF BELCHING PENGUINTop^
I always felt that BELCHING PENGUIN, often incorrectly called 
The Belching Penguins, was gravely over-looked in their time.  
"Draft Beer... Not Me" was probably the best American hardcore 
album of 1986 and certainly the best hardcore album to ever come
out of Florida.  BP came from Sarasota, but are usually associated 
with the Tampa scene.  Here's an interview with founding member 
Jeff Jewhurst, conducted by Bob Suren JAN 2007.



BS: When, where and how did Belching Penguin form?
JJ:  In 82'-'83 I had played in a shitty new wave band in Bradenton
with a guy named Terry Jones.  He was a surfer/skater guy who
turned me on to Circle Jerks, Agent Orange, Black Flag, Dead
Kennedys... basically the California scene.  And WMNF. (Indie Tampa
radio station.)
	The only show we ever played was at a house party in
Bradenton opening up for a band called the Warp from Venice.  Terry
was friends with their singer, Dan Destructo.  The Warp were fast,
heavy and tight. I wanted to play like that!
   	At that party I met some other local skaters who
eventually told me about this kid they knew who was a great drummer
who was into Devo and was starting to get in to punk rock.  My friend
Jeff Beck gave me Ron's phone number. I called him up, we hit it off
and realized he lived in my neighborhood.  We set up a time to try
jamming in my parents garage.  I had to pick him up, though.  He was
15 and didn't have his driver's license yet.  Things jelled pretty fast.
My dad was a jazz/country swing drummer back in his day and was
stoked that someone was playing his drum kit.  My mom, as tolerant
as she was, had those moments like the intro from D.R.I.'s "Madman."
   During early 84' we wrote enough songs to play a set along with
some Angry Samoans, Suicidal Tendencies, Anti-Nowhere League
and Agent Orange covers.  But you got to realize I was switching off
between guitar and bass while singing.  We needed either a guitar
player or a bass player.  Ron's brother Eric was an amazing metal
guitar shredder who HATED punk, but played with us anyway.  He
ended up recording guitar parts on some early 8-track demos for us
and played our very first show as Belching Penguin.  Arthur and Phil
Harriss were two scenester brothers who live out on Anna Maria
Island and let us play in their living room.  About 40 kids showed up,
tore shit up and had a blast... when's the next show?
  	Ron's brother was done.  He wanted to concentrate on
Yngwie Malmsteen-type metal, which he was, in fact, amazing at.  Ron
and I looked for other guitarists and on a tip from a friend found Eric
Blackmon in Sarasota.  Eric was wanting to start a punk band anyway
and fit in with us immediately.  We got a warehouse/mini-storage
rehersal space behind the old WelCraft factory in Oneco.  The air
reeked of fiberglass fumes.
  	We were going to a lot of shows up in Tampa -- every
weekend we'd have three or four cars (including our deceased friend
Dan 'Pig Pen' Herwig) going up to Tampa or Clearwater for shows.
Up there we met other punks in bands like Pagan Faith, Rat Cafeteria
and Jehovah's Sicknesses.  I even ran into Dan Destructo and his
new band No Fraud.  Those guys all took us under their wings.  It was
pretty incredible to be part of that scene. We passed out our six song
demo around and even got it played on WMNF's "Radical Noise"
show.  Someone from Jehovah's Sicknesses offered us a spot on a bill at
the Quay (on Sunset, behind Vinyl Fever Records) -- our true first
show, opening for JS and The Motor Pigs.  It was hot as hell in
there... I remember sweat filling my eyes and stinging like a bastard. I
couldn't even see.  That was the start of it.

BS: Who came up with the name Belching Penguin?  Up until recently, I
thought the band was named THE Pelching Penguins.  Is that why the
first demo was called, "No THE and no S"?
JJ:  Ron and I kept trying to think of a name... any name.  We thought
about using names like Suburban DMZ or something that had
personal politics attached.  But that wouldn't really work for us, you
know?  We were both basically dorks who wanted to play hardcore
and any name with a posture would have been a disaster for us.  It
wouldn't be genuine.  We listened to a lot of humorous bands like
Angry Samoans, Meatmen and Vandals.  We figured on taking the
absurd route... Belching Penguin was just a mix of a verb and a noun.
That's the reason there is no 'the' or 's', to try and make it sound
random.  Then, of course, everyone assumes you 'like' penguins and
gives you all this penguin related crap, like Opus dolls and shit.

BS: What was the scene like in your area at that time?  I grew up on the
east coast of Florida, which had a pretty laid back, friendly scene.  We
had goofy bands like Gay Cowboys In Bondage, F, Lethal Yellow and
Broken Talent.  Folks on the east coast were under the impression that
the west coast Florida scene was way more aggressive and violent.
JJ:  Like I said, 1984-1986 was an incredible time to be in Tampa.
Tampa had some amazing shows with like 800 people crammed into
the basement of the Cuban Club for Suicidal or the Circle Jerks.
People blowing off some major steam, having a major fucking blast.
There were so many bands at the time, too.  I think the most
unfortunate thing about that scene was there was no regional
compilation record to document and expose the bands and the
Tampa scene in general.  I feel we had bands in our scene that were
as good as anything anywhere else in the country or on vinyl.  And
we definitely had some kick ass shows.  With some of the shows
being so huge, there were bound to be assholes who wanted to fight.
Looking back, it doesn't seem any worse than what the early DC
scene writes about itself.  At the time though, it could be pretty
frightening.  But the agressive part was part of the original appeal.
   	Sarasota-Venice, our local scene, was pretty cool.  Big
scene for little town.  We'd play warehouse parties and some local
teen clubs and even a strip club.  A lot more younger kids at these
shows.
   	Once skanking turned to "moshing," everybody started
slugging instead of picking each other up in the pit.  Shows were
always getting shut down because of fights.  Ron eventually got
burned out and left the scene for a year in '88.  The scene got pretty
self destructive. But then again, it was running its course and
petering out.

BS:  Two BP demos came before the "Draft Beer" album.  Where were
they recorded and how do you feel about the demos?  A lot of Tampa old
timers swear the demos are better than the album.
JJ:  Our first recording experience was when we recorded "There's
No Food" and "Hangover" in late '84. I'm playing bass and singing
("singing"...) as well as doing the guitar tracks.  We found this 8
track, 1/2" studio in Oneco called Shady Lady.  It was run by this old
hippie guy named Sausha McInnis.  He said he'd worked with Alice
Cooper in the early 70's, but I can't remember in what capacity.
Anyway, he was the cheapest studio we could find.  The studio was
$175 for Saturday and Sunday nights.  He and his wife were actually
really nice folks and treated us well.  They helped us find our
rehearsal spot and were good friends to us.  Not necessarily the
greatest at getting drum and guitar tones, but they let us take the
place over.   We finished mixing those two songs on a Sunday night
and took them up to Tampa the following Saturday and got them
played on WMNF.  A month later we went back to Shady Lady with
Ron's brother Eric on guitar and recorded "No Surf" (including a field
recording we made of Stacy Claprude skating on the Palma Sola
ramp), "Brain Damage" (for our friend Max who's parents sent him
"away",) "My Girlfriend Is In Porno" (true story), and "Forget The
World."  Our friend Andi Sumpter helped out on some of the lyric
chores.  All of those songs were put on the six song "No 'The,' No 'S'"
cassette demo.  I think we made about 80 of those and just passed
them out at shows.
	After we played shows for about a year we went back
into the studio to record 13 songs that were to be released as an
album.  We recorded at Catch 22  in Sarasota with Doug Kaye (aka
Tony King).  Another 8 track, 1/2" deal, but way hotter sound.  Kaye
went on to record and produce bass-heavy hip-hop; I think he's still
going at it.  Some of these songs were re-recordings of the six song
demo, along with some new material we really liked.  This was a fun
session -- 13 songs in one night, including all vocal tracks (I was still
singing at this point) and guitar tracks.  We mixed the following day.
The sound was still raw (Ron hates the drum sound), but a way more
in-your-face mix... and the band was a lot more solid and rehearsed.
It definitely captured the energy of the band.  Some of these songs
are what made up the second 1985 demo and are the first four songs
on the Burrito Records 7".

BP:  When and why did Zack join the band as vocalist and what effect did
that have on your sound and live show?
JJ:  Zak was this kid I met while working at Robbin's Records in
Sarasota.  He'd come in and I'd sell him some new HC release.  I think
I turned him on to Discharge, DRI, Agnostic Front.  He would come to
our shows and hang out.  He was definitely our bro... he was trying to
get a band together, as well.  We as a band thought we would
eventually get a person up front.   We tried out someone from Jehovah's
Sicknesses on bass, to try and get me up front, but it wasn't working.
It wasn't my strong point.  Zak was the obvious choice.  It just
seemed like the right time to make the addition.  With me focusing on
bass playing and Zak going nuts up front our live shows had more
energy than ever -- and were a lot more consistent.

BS:	How did the album, "Draft Beer Not Me" come about?  Did
the label approach you?  What was the deal you made?
JJ:  I knew Tony Refugiato of No Clubs Productions from working at
Robbin's.  I filled in behind him after he left there.  I ran into him at
another record shop in Sarasota and gave him the six song demo.
He was spinning new wave and punk records at whatever Sarasota
bar would let him, but he wanted to do live shows.  He  hooked up
with Dave Hundley, a former carnie, who had the acumens.  We were
the first band they ever did a show with.  That relationship took off
and we got some amazing shows out of it.  By early '86 we had
enough songs to do an album they offered to record it and put it out.
	This is when we did the Catch 22 recordings.  It was also
a few months before Zak joined the band.  After Zak joined, we went
back to Catch 22 and re-recorded the vocals .  We took the tape to
London Studios in Tampa for mastering.
	The engineer, Howard Conder, talked us into re-
recording the entire album with him. This was a 24 track, 2" studio...
with No Clubs footing the bill.  So we came back a few weeks later
(April Fool's Day 1986) and recorded "Draft Beer...Not Me" in its
entirety.  It was all recorded during a 12-hour lock-out.  		
	When we mixed down we made a mistake that I still kick
myself in the ass for -- rather than spend the money on new 1/2 tape,
we recorded over the Catch 22 sessions.  Gone.  Lost forever.  I can
still remember how intense Zak's vocals were and how brutal Eric's
guitar work was.  There are no copies ANYWHERE.  But we had the
recording that would be eventually be released.
	Andi came up with the logo, Ron's friend Mike Davis
drew up the front cover, I lettered and laid out the back and No Clubs
sent it off... 1,000 copies, to my memory. (BS:  Tony Refugiato told me
the exact figure was 1,100 -- quite an odd number for a pressing.
Probably the result of a factory over-run.)
   There was no "deal" struck between us and No Clubs.  It was all
just this big informal project between friends and everyone did their
part to see how far we could take it.  Nobody made any money, but
that's not why we did it.  After that, No Clubs did some distribution of
singles for No Fraud and Pagan Faith, and remixed (at Morrisound in
Tampa) and re-released 'DB...NM' on CD in 1997.

BP:  What kind of reception did "Draft Beer... Not Me" get?  You told me
that you thought Maximum Rocknroll was a little down on it, but I seem to
recall the review being mostly positive.  (I searched my stacks of zines
but can't seem to locate the review.)  Also, did you know the song,
"Annorexic" appeared on a bootleg LP from Europe called, "A
Compilation Dedicated To Tim Yohanan"  in 1998?
JJ:  Well, I wouldn't say it it was a negative review, just kind of
neutral.  I think it read like: "Fast hardcore with snotty vocals...okay!"
We really didn't get as many bites from getting a plug in MRR as we
thought.  I think there was maybe one small advert taken out, as well.
We never really got that many reviews in print, though some LPs
were sent out as promos.
   	European bootleg... no shit???  That's the first we've
heard of it.  Where can we get copies?  I'd love to see that!

BP:  I have heard of Draft Beer selling for around $100 in Europe and
Japan.  And I know of a guy in Virginia who recently made BP tshirts as
presents for all of his friends.  What do you think of that?
JJ:  The collectors market is a funny thing... paying big bucks for
something that was intended to be kept at a really low price.  It's
pretty flattering, though.  I saw one on eBay a few months ago go for
$42... it was actually kinda cool watching the price go up over ten
days!  But it's just like anything else that is made in limited
quantities... people want that record (or a hard copy of a tape) they
had 20 years ago.  Even if wasn't the greatest album in their stack of
punk rock it still defines that part of your life.  We get people writing
and asking if we have any LPs left... gotta love that.  I heard that we
received some airplay on John Peel's Radio One show, but Japan???
	Making t-shirts of a band you dig is a concept as old as
hardcore itself.  To give them as gifts is super cool; again, we're
flattered.  It kind of ties in with the idea of bootlegs. It's one thing to
DIY on something that doesn't exist anymore and keep it for your own
personal use or even share it, but to snake someone's song and put
it on a compilation and make money off of it is completely different.

BP:  So, let's think back to 1986.  Misfits, long gone.  Minor Threat, long
gone.  Dead Kennedy split up.  Black Flag tried hard rock and then split
up.  D.R.I., Agnostic Front and Corrosion Of Conformity went speedmetal.
DYS, SSD, Gang Green went metal.  7 Seconds turned into U2 Part Two.
Circle Jerks put out "VI," their worst release to date.  All around the USA,
the hardcore greats were dying or maligning their legacy with slipshod
work.  Why were you guys so on fire at this point?  Totally at the top of
your game...  Was it a case of picking up the torch and running with it or
is it that Florida is a few years behind the rest of the country?
JJ:  I think it was just a point where WE were doing it.  All of us had
always wanted to be in a band and this was when we got our shit
together enough to actually put something together.  We really loved
playing, hanging out at shows and our warehouse, skating, listening
to records... being punk rock guys.  We loved playing hardcore.  If
other bands went more metal or whatever it was still all hardcore.
Everything seemed like it was still moving ahead... GBH, Bad Brains,
DOA, DRI --  a lot of great bands still on tour, lots of people at shows,
lots of cool local bands.  Nobody told us hardcore was in decline.

BP:  The only time I ever saw BP back in the day was in Port Saint Lucie,
over on the east coast of Florida.  Do you remember that show, put on by
Scot Lade of Disorderly Conduct?  I also know of at least one show in Ft
Lauderdale.  Did BP play many shows outside of the Tampa area?  Any
out of state shows?
JJ:  I remember that PSL show -- my bass was stolen from my friend's
car that night!  We played a hand-full of shows in Ft Lauderdale... one
was was Summer's On The Beach, with DRI -- the others I forget.  One
F.L. show found us overnighting at Foul Manor (BS:  Home of the band
Foul Existence in Ft. Pierce.) -- no heat on probably the coldest night
there ever... we ended up driving home at 3 or 4 in the morning.  We
played shows in Gainseville pretty regularly.  Miami several times,
including the Cameo.  Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Orlando, Venice,
plus a bunch of small towns...
	The only time we ever played out of state was a show at
the Metroplex (Atlanta) with Impotent Sea Snakes.  This would have
been in '86 right after the record came out.  The Sea Snakes sent us a
letter wishing us luck on the record and said they were looking
forward to playing with us.  We drove up from Bradenton in Ron's old
Dodge van, all of us sick as hell.  When we got to the club it was
empty and stayed that way.  The ISS's watched us play, then we
watched them play.  There were maybe 20 paid heads in the
Metroplex -- not a tiny place.  Things were more fun back home

BP:  1990, Gainesville, FL.  I am walking from my off-campus apartment
to an afternoon class.  It is garbage day.  Cans are on the curb and in the
distance I hear the distinct sound of a garbage truck.  By chance, I glance
into a lidless garbage can and see a D.R.I. "Crossover" tour tshirt, right at
the top.  I pick it out and underneath it is an Agnostiic Front Tshirt and a
BP "Draft Beer" Tshirt.  I jam them into my backpack and hurry off to
class.  Reaction?
JJ:  They didn't fit any more, so I chucked them...  Seriously, that's a
great story. I wonder if some fundamentalist mom went through her
kid's room and cleaned house.

BS:	When and why did BP break up?
JJ:  By 1987 things were slowing down for us.  We took a pretty good
hit one night after a show in Bradenton.  ALL of our equipment was
stolen from our Oneco warehouse.  We were in the middle of a bunch
of Florida shows with Circle Jerks.  After the show, Ron took the gear
back to the warehouse, set up the drum kit and bass rig and played
with Zander (Snake) Schloss for a few hours.  I got a call the next
morning from the warehouse management saying that our garage
door was open and the space was empty.  Some bastard waited until
Ron left and pried the lock off.  We had to cancel a bunch of  shows
and somehow get new gear.  We lost some precious momentum.
	The bigger shows started to get violent with assholes
beating the shit out of people.  It started to be not so much of an
alternative to the rest of the world.
	Ron started to feel like he wanted to check out anther
town.  He told us he had decided to move to Los Angeles.  And that
was pretty much it for Belching Penguin.  We continued working on
some new songs with Kenny Kraun, the drummer from D.C.'s
Beefeater.  He was a killer drummer, but it wasn't the same so we just
called it.

BP:  Anything else you'd like to add?
JJ:  Sure...go start your own band.





INTERVIEW WITH PAT LAWLOR OF TERRORAINTop^
Pat Lawlor was the singer of a U.K. thrash band named Terrorain.  
(The band took it's name from a Septic Death song, which you should 
find only appropriate, should you decide to give them a listen.)  I 
started talking to Pat by phone when he began doing a lot of mailorder 
from me.  He always ordered the greatest stuff.  I figured, this guy really 
knows his music.  As his calls became more frequent and his orders larger 
and larger, we began talking, quite naturally, about our mutual love for hardcore 
and punk.  I like to think of myself as well-versed in music, but this guy could 
run circles around me.  It seems he not only knows everything about damn near
every band on the planet from 1977 to present, but he knows a good number of 
these bands personally, as well.  At that point, I didn't know anything about his 
band, Terrorain.  He modestly admitted that few people outside of England had
ever heard of them, as the band was only around a short while and never conquered 
vinyl. Terrorain did, however, record a demo in 1988.  I had a hunch that it would 
kick ass.  Pat sent me a copy and my hunch was right on the mark.  I asked him 
if he'd like to put it out on vinyl and he was surprised that I liked it so much.  
"The vocals aren't very good," he offered.  In June of 2000, more than twelve years 
after the demo was recorded, I released it on 7" vinyl as Burrito Records #13.  Pat 
said having the record come out was "A dream come true.  Something I thought I 
would never do."  I had no idea how the record would be received, but to my pleasure, 
all of the reviews I've seen thus far have raved about it.  Hey, zinesters, those 
reviews have made Pat pretty happy, too.  After Matt Average of Engine Zine listened 
to the Terrorain 7", he asked me to interview Pat.  So, when Pat visited Florida in 
October 2000, we sat down outside of my record store after a record swap and let 
the tape roll.  After transcribing this, it is apparent that barely any of the 
interview is about Terrorain.  Actually, what follows is less of an interview and more 
of a lively conversation with a guy who's pretty much seen it all.  I guarantee there 
will be something of interest in here for just about everyone reading this.  
Interview by Bob Suren, Oct 29, 2000 in Brandon, Fl.

BS:	What were the circumstances that led
you to get involved in punk rock and do you
remember what year that was?
PL:	Yeah.  I sat at the kitchen table late one
night and we used to be able pick up a radio
station in the UK called Radio Luxembourg and I
heard "Gary Gilmore's Eyes" by the Adverts
and it was just like...  That was basically it.
That's what got me into it.  I didn't ever have
much time for the Sex Pistols.  In fact, frankly I
was at the age where someone like that would
have scared me anyway.  But I heard The
Adverts and that was just sort of like a turning
point.  And before that I listened to Supertramp
and Roxy Music and that was it.  So, when the
Adverts came along, I jumped straight into it.
Just got a little jacket and wrote stuff on the
back of it.  I wore flares with zips sewn in them
and just became a little punk rocker.  And for
some reason I didn't give up on it.  Every week
there was something coming out which was just
better.  Buzzcocks, Wire, Slaughter and The
Dogs -- all those sorts of bands.  Jesus, it was
just a massive thing going on.  It was speaking
to kids my age.  I was just about thirteen at the
time.
BS:	What year was that?
PL:	That was '77.
BS:	Right from the beginning.
PL:	Yeah, pretty much.  And I was just blown
away by it.  And then I finally got to see The
Adverts on a weekly TV show that did the pop
music charts.  And he was singing and he had
this chain, hanging off the sleeve of his jacket
with a doll's head on it with the eyes punched
out.  I just wore a doll's head on my jacket for
about a year after that.  I thought that was just
great.  It was just the power of it that really spoke
to me.  They had a song called, "No Time To Be
21," and it was no time to be 21.  You know, it
was purely for us.  And to be able to go into our
local city, which was Swindon, and go to a place
like The Greyhound and be able to get in there
and see bands playing -- all kinds of bands.  I
saw little, unknown bands, like Urban
Disturbance and TV 21 and we had the Excerpts
from Bristol come over and play.  And it was just
something going on and I wanted to be part of it.
And these great big kids with spiky hair just sort
of terrified me and fascinated me at the same
time.  It was brillinat.
BS:	How were the Sex Pistols viewed?  You
said you didn't have much time for the Sex
Pistols.  What do you mean by that?
PL:	Well, basically, to me personally, it
looked like offense for offense's sake.  Even as a
young kid, I thought they were just being hard,
thuggish louts for no real reason.  I didn't see
much point in being a hard, thuggish lout.  I was
kind of, pretty much picked on in school.  I was
bullied and the people who bullied me were the
kind who looked like the Sex Pistols, spitting on
the floor and being obnoxious and rude.  And I
just never saw the point.  And when we
eventually got to see them, when Sid Vicious
was playing bass, we went over to see them at
Brunell University in Bristol.  They just played
something like nine songs, they didn't really
care.  They just looked like they didn't care.  And
I just thought that they were ripping off the kids,
really, or ripping off my generation.
BS:	They struck you as commodified?
They didn't strike you as the real thing, so to
speak?
PL:	I think they are the real thing now,
looking back at it.  I genuinely feel they were the
catalyst.  But at the time I genuinely didn't think
they had any part to play in punk at all.  I thought
there were other bands that were doing it with
more honesty.  I thought the Cortinas from
Bristol, the Adverts, the Clash, just seemed to
be more real, more up front and were doing
something for the kids.  The Pistols just always
seemed to be looking down on us like they were
above us or something.  I just felt betrayed by
them.
BS:	A lot of people have credited the Sex
Pistols with being the first punk band, but I am
sure there were bands before them that they got
their ideas from.  Who do you think that the Sex
Pistols probably drew their influence from?
PL:	About 1979, somebody played me "Fun
House," by the Stooges and I just thought,
"That's just the Pistols."
BS:	You think that's where the Pistols
picked up their whole schtick -- from the
Stooges?
PL:	Definitely.  I think you could listen to
the guy who played drums from Roxy Music,
you can hear all of the Sex Pistols drumming in
there.  You could hear all of the Pistols guitar
sound on those early Stooges records.  you can
hear John Lydon's sneer in some early
Hawkwind songs.
BS:	What about the early American punk
stuff like the Ramones and the Dickies?  Did
that get over to England and how was it
received?
PL:	I got into the Dickies through "Silent
Night," which was Christmas '78 and I bought
every single thing I could find by them, which
was the "Paranoid" single and the "Eve of
Destruction" single.  I just thought they were
brilliant but at the same time everyone thought
they were a joke.  They had silly names like
Chuck Wagon and Karlos Kabalerro.  Noone was
really taking them seriously.  The punks from '77
stopped being punk about '78, so the Dickies
were a joke to them.  They were too cool for the
Dickies.  Me, being a young kid, just about
getting to about my fourteenth birthday, I
thought they were brilliant.  When "Banana
Splits" came out, everyone was laughing at it.
Everyone thought that was punk rock.  More
serious bands that we were listening to at the
same time, like Stiff Little Fingers and the Ruts
became treated kind of like the Dickies and it
was all just going to be ha-ha, fun sort of stuff.
But I thought the Dickies were just great.  There
were a lot of serious Dickies fans in the U.K.
BS:	What about the Ramones?
PL:	The Ramones were brilliant.  I think
they were doing it before the Pistols.  I think they
were better than the Pistols.
BS:	How were they accepted in England?
PL:	Packed houses every time they played.
I've never seen them play to a bad crowd.
BS:	I think the "It's Alive" double album
was recorded in England.  And it sounds like the
crowd is going wild.
PL:	Absolutely.  It's the only live album I've
got.  It's the finest live album that's ever been
made.
BS:	What about more obscure American
punk bands from that same era, like the Pagans,
the Electric Eels.  Did any of that stuff ever
make it over to England?
PL:	No.  Never.  We didn't know anything
about it.  We didn't really know how big the
American punk scene was.  We knew Wayne
County.  We knew Television, Talking Heads,
Voidoids, that first wave of New York bands.  I
don't think anyone was really aware of how big
punk was.  The (Dead) Kennedys got a single got
a single out in '79 on Fast Records, "California
Uber Alles."  That alerted other people to
something going on, but they were like the only
band.  It wasn't really until, "Let Them Eat
Jellybeans" came out that kids really started
picking up on what was going on over there.
BS:	What about the first wave of California
punk?  The Germs, the Dils, the Avengers, the
Weirdos.
PL:	That never crossed over.
BS:	It made no impact at all?
PL:	Absolutely none whatsoever that I
would know of.  Social Distortion had a single
that you could get.  Posh Boy (Editor's note:
Early California record label) had some records
come out in the U.K. towards the end of '81, at
about the same time that we were staring to find
things like, (Black Flag) "Jealous Again."  The
Germs album with the blue circle and "Hardcore
'81" by D.O.A. appeared about late '81.  They
were snapped up by people like me that were
looking for something else.  I mean, just the fact
that the D.O.A. album had "Hardcore" written on
it... I mean, I knew nothing about D.O.A., but I
just bought that album really because it said
"Hardcore" on it.
BS:	So when you went to record stores at
this time, it was mostly English and European
records in the store and an occasional
Ameriacan release.
PL:	Mostly English.  Not too many
European ones.  I remember seeing Lama from
Finland play in the U.K. to a completely dead
audience the same night that Black Flag played
to the sound of leather jackets being zipped up,
to quote Rollins.  People weren't all that
accepting of it. The Sods from Sweden had a
single out in the U.K.  The Misfits had "Beware"
available in the U.K., but nobody was buying it.
It's just like, they were very insular, the U.K.
punks.  There was Discharge, Anti-Pasti,
Exploited and a lot of other British punk bands
around at the time and that was what took most
interest.  We all had massive spikes and studded
leather jackets and until Crucifix came along, we
never saw any American kids outside of plaid
shirts, jeans and trainers (Editor's note:
sneakers or tennis shoes).  They just didn't look
like punks to us.
BS:	How was the transition between the
first wave of Sex Pistols and the Adverts and
the second wave, which would have been
Discharge?
PL:	Well, actually, the second wave was
more Skids, Angelic Upstarts and Ruts about '79.
That was when punk really took on its own
identity with the leather jackets, bondage
trousers and what-have-you.  The kind of chaotic
look with the safety pins and all was sort of
associated with the first wave.  The sceond wave
is like the bondage trousers and the third wave
is Discharge and studded leathers.
BS:	And what did that do?  I heard that the
early Discharge records really catalyzed -- or
polarized -- the Brit punk scene.  You were either
really for them or really against them.
PL:	What happened was, when the first
Discharge e.p. came out, which was about
February 1980, a lot of punks, myself included,
just thought it was a fucking racket.  Didn't like
it.  Wasn't prepared to accept it.  That isn't punk
rock.  Me and my friends just didn't like it.  The
second e.p. came out and to us, it was just like a
noise.  But by that time, Crass were really
holding the U.K. punk scene as their own.  And
Discharge with their anarchy signs just became
something to embrace.  Something was going
on.  Something was really happening.  You could
feel something happening.  The old wave, with
the Ruts and Angelic Upstarts was dying out
and disappearing and there was this new wave
of younger kids coming through.  And these
Discharge and Exploited records were being
snapped up.
BS:	Eventually they won the audience over.
PL:	Oh, yeah.  In the end, they convinced
me.  When "Decontrol" came out, I thought it
was the best thing I ever heard.  And I would
have never said that about a Discharge record.
BS:	So in the beginning there was
resistance?
PL:	Oh, yeah.  When they first came out,
me and all my friends, who had been there from
the start, thought, "This is shit.  It's horrible
stuff.  I can't believe kids would want to listen to
this."  When I first saw The Expolited, I said to
my friend, "Kids should seriously think about
the name of that band before they put it on their
leather jacket."  But it really caught on.

BS:	Where on earth do you think Discharge
got their sound?  There was never anything
before them that sounded like that.  Where could
they come up with that din guitar sound?
PL:	You know, I think the fact that their
first e.p. was recorded in about three hours or
something.  That might have a bit to do with it.
But it's still one of the finest produced records
I've ever heard.  It still shreds, twenty years later.
You know, I don't know.  The only band that I
could eqaute them with sounding similar to is
Motorhead, but even they had more... uh, talent?
There was just something about it.  When I first
heard, it, nothing like that had ever been done
before.  And after a while, the fact that there was
nothing else like it was a realization that, "Jesus,
maybe this shit is good.  Maybe it is worth
having another look at."
BS:	So, when that first Discharge record
came out in February of 1980, you would have
never guessed that twenty years later, there
would be kids all over the world worshipping
them and ripping off their style.
PL: 	(Lots of laughter)  No.
BS:	And ripping off their logo.
PL:	(More laughter)  It's only about a year
ago I was talking to Bones (Editor's note:
Discharge guitarist) and I said to him, we were
having a beer and he was in the same bar as us,
and I said to him, "Have you any idea what
you've done?" And he was just sort of like, "If I
had ever known what I was gonna do back then, I
would never have done it."
BS:	Really?
PL:	Because it's what punk is now.  Punk
basically is  Discharge.  It just is.
BS:	So, what is his view of the current state
of punk?  Is he not impressed by it?
PL:	Oh, yeah, he is.  I think he thinks it's
great that kids are still doing it.
BS:	But he says he would have never done
it?
PL:	He had this kind of attitude, like if he
had known then what he knows now, he would
have chosen something different.  That's Bones.
As far as I can ever remember with him, all he
ever listened to was Souisxie and the Banshees.
I never remember him checking out other bands
that Discharge was playing with.  He never really
hung out with the kids.  He was a very quiet
bloke.  He kept very much to himself and he
loved Souisxie and the Banshees.  He left
Discharge because he reckoned they were
getting too heavy metal and what's the next
thing he does?  Broken Bones.  He goes heavy
metal.  I never really worked the guy out.  I just
chatted to him very briefly.
BS:	How old are you, if you don't mind me
asking?
PL:	I'm 36.
BS:	How many of your contemporaries,
people your age, are still hanging out and buying
music and going to shows in England?  Or in
Europe?
PL:	As far as the kids I grew up with, I am
the only one that I know of.  There's one guy that
I know in the south of England that still listens to
stuff if I send it to him.  He doesn't really go out
and buy it, but if I send it to him, he'll listen to it.
If I go to punk shows, I'm the oldest guy there.
If I go to these big punk weekend things, most of
the audience there are my age or getting to be
my age.  There's a lot of guys still doing it
around the U.K., but you just don't ever see
them.
BS:	Well, you've been to the United States
a number of times for work and for vacation.
What do you see as the differences between
present-day Europe and present-day United
States, as far as shows.
PL:	I can't get over the enthusiasim and
energy of the U.S. shows I've seen.  They are
harder, rougher, sweatier, hotter places to go to.
They are bigger.  Definitely bigger.  The
audience kicks in right from the first chord.  In
the U.K., you've got to really fight to get an
audience up and going for you.  You'll probably
stand a good chance of playing to a completely
empty dance floor.  Whereas, in the United
States, something kicks off straight away.
BS:	I read in the Get in the Van book about
Black Flag playing in England in '81 or '82 and
getting almost no reaction.  I find it almost
impossible to believe that a band as intense and
hot as Black Flag could play to a bunch of cold
fish.
PL:	It's really embarassing and if I was any
kind of punk rocker from that time that saw
Black Flag and stood there, I would feel
ashamed.  I followed Black Flag, me and a friend
of mine, followed Black Flag on every single U.K.
date they ever did and we went mad every night.
I had Black Flag on the arm of my leather jacket
and I was quite mercilessly beaten to shit by a
bunch of Exploited punks for having that
"Yankee crap written on your arm."  So, Black
Flag, they were going to get beat up every night.
BS:	Was it because they were American or
because of the style of music they were playing?
PL:	It was basically because they were
American.  And how could anyone ever stand
still to "Six Pack"?  I could never work that out.
That's probably one of the finest songs ever
made.  But people just didn't embrace them at
all.  I remember seeing a popular music
journalist in the U.K., him and his cronies,
surrounding that little bassist Kira and
threatening her because cruise missles were in
the U.K.  Like that had anything to do with Black
Flag anyway.  It was just sort of embarassing
how the English were treating the American
punks.  When the Dead Kennedys came over,
they'd pack the place out, but Black Flag, forget
it.
BS:	What about the transition between
punk and hardcore.  It seems that around 1980 or
'81, there was almost a subgenre coming out of
punk that was becoming known as hardcore.
And how was that received in England?
PL:	I don't think that it was particularly
received in England.  "In God We Trust, Inc."
was the fastest thing we had over there that was
available to us.
BS:	And what did people think of that?
PL:	He (Jello Biafra) was interviewed on
national radio and they played tracks off that,
including "Religious Vomit."  It was played on
the radio over there on a Saturday evening
show.  I remember sititng in a Baskin Robbins,
listening to that.  And everyone thought that the
Dead Kennedys had gone bad.  It was rubbish.
There was this horrible peer pressure on all of
the U.K. punk bands that they could do what
they wanted on their first couple of records, but
they had to change after that.  And most of them
just went back to sounding like like '77 bands.
And all of a sudden you had bands that really did
carry the flag, like Anti-Sect and Subhumans and
Rudimentary Peni that said, "No, we don't wanna
sound like that.  We want to do something that
sounds a little more direct and a little more
angry and more fun to play and more fun to go
and see."
BS:	So, "In God We Trust, Inc.," that came
out in, what, 1981?  That was perceived as
garbage after the first album.  I have heard
similar comments from older people in the
United States.  Pushead, who is also probably
about 36, I talked to him on the phone one time
and he told me, "You know, I never liked the
Dead Kennedys.  I think the first album was OK,
but I think the second album, 'In God We Trust,
Inc.' was garbage.  I think that was Jello Biafra
and gang trying to latch onto the D.C. hardcore
sound."  And he thought that that was some kind
of blatant attempt to latch onto a different genre.
And it is unusual, because their next album,
"Plastic Surgery," was very similar to the first
album.  "Plastic Surgery Disasters" is pretty
much a continuation of "Fresh Fruit."  If I ever
get to speak to Biafra again, I'm going to ask him
what was going on in the band in 1981 that they
leapt away from their style and then they leapt
back to it.  It seems like an anomaly.
PL:	Well, it's funny you mention it, because
I remember now, I am remembering distinctly,
this radio interview that Biafra gave in the U.K. in
which they were talking about "In God We
Trust," and he said it's solely influenced by what
is coming out of Washington right now.  Which
would have been S.O.A.  Would that be about
that time?
BS:	Yes.
PL:	Because "Flex Your Head" came out on
Alternative Tentacles, I think.
BS:	Yes, there was a pressing on
Alternative Tentacles. (Editor's note:  The third
pressing of "Flex Your Head," the one with the
XXX cover, was a co-release with Alternative
Tentacles in 1982.  2,000 copies were made.)
PL:	Yes, I think that was a big influence on
what he was doing in the band at that time.
BS:	So the '81 hardcore that was coming
out of the United States was maybe too fast for
England?  You told me about seeing the Bad
Brains and people were asking them to slow
down.
PL:	Oh, yeah.  I'll never forget that.  The
Bad Brains.  This was an important album.  We
had all heard "Pay To Cum" because it was on
"Let Them Eat Jellybeans."  And so Bad Brains
come over to the U.K. and they have this album
out, "Rock For Light," which, for me, was
absolutely incredible.  The reggae tracks
interested a lot of my friends because we all
came out of the early punk scene where there
was a lot of reggae anyway.  And so we trekked
off to see them and after the first song, people
were saying, "Slow down.  Play a slow one."
Over and over again.  People just didn't know
what to do with them.
BS:	They couldn't pogo to it.
PL:	Oh, god no.  And then six months later,
when Crucifix toured and MDC were over there
as well, people were just like, "What the fuck is
going on?"  I loved it.  I really, really, really
enjoyed it.  I thought Crucifix were great.  I went
to every date they played in the U.K.  And they
would play to a clear dance floor some nights
because people were just again like, "What the
fuck's going on here?  What do we do?"
BS:	I never heard hardcore come out of
England that sounded like US hardcore of that
era.  I can't think of any bands that sound like
MDC or Minor Threat that came out of England.
PL:  No.  I don't think there were any, to be
honest with you.  I think later on, around about
'85, we had A.O.A. from Scotland who were quite
nippy.  The Stupids were definitely influenced by
Gang Green, Double Zero and bands like that.
But when (Husker Du) "Metal Circus" came out,
that was what what my friends would say was
good U.S. hardcore.  But I was listening to
(Minor Threat) "Out Of Step," and preferring that.
But they said, "No.  That's too fast."
BS:	I never thought I would hear a punk
rocker say, "too fast," especially not in 1983.  It
never happened in the United States.  I never
heard anybody call anything, "too fast," in the
United States.
PL:	Oh, we had a lot of it over there.
People thought the first D.R.I. thing, the 22-song
thing.  People were just, "Nah."  They liked
Social Distortion.
BS:	But that music, D.R.I., was so
embraced in countries like Finland and Sweden.
All those classic bands from Finland, Sweden,
Italy, Norway -- all cite D.R.I., Minor Threat,
S.O.A., Gang Green, Jerry's Kids, Poison Idea,
Negative FX -- they all cite early 80s American
hardcore bands as their huge influence.  But
they couldn't make a dent in England?
PL:	Nope.  There were pockets of
acceptance.  Nottingham in the U.K. had a
particular love for that kind of stuff.  I know the
guys from Heresy and they were very much
weaned on that kind of thing.  The Stupids from
Ipswich, home of Extreme Noise Terror... There
were pockets of it.  I met a guy in Penzance who
was the singer for the Destructors and me and
him hung around together, pretty much
exchanging records.  Swapping records with
each other all the time because we were the only
two guys I knew who loved that stuff.  There was
noone else.  A lot of kids weren't interested in
what we were listening to.  They just wanted
good old Brit punk and that was that.
BS:	When did you start becoming involved
in doing things?  I mean, going from buying
records and seeing bands to playing in bands
and booking shows and all the other things you
did.
PL:	It was something I always wanted to do
and I really tried.  When I was living right down
in the southern tip of England, in Cornwall, I
tried putting on a Varukers show.  And I got to
this club where punk bands like the Business
and Peter And The Test Tube Babies would
regularly come and play.  And the DJ there just
gave me such a hard time.  He said, "You're
going to have to give me all of their records so I
can listen to them.  I can only pay them ten
percent of the door.  We can't pay them their
guarantee."  I mean, these guys only wanted
about two hundred bucks to come and play, but
they were like, "We can't do this, we can't do
that."  So, I just thought, "Fuck it," and I really
just gave up and I sort of apologized to the
Varukers and said, "I can't do it."  Then I moved
up to the middle of England and I was in touch
with Dig from Earache Records and I phoned him
one night and said, "Is there anything going on
that I can be part of?"  And he said, "Larm,
Heibel and Heresy are going to be touring the
U.K."  I said, "Alright, I'll promote their show."
And that's how I put on my first show.
BS:	What was that, maybe '85 or '86?
PL:	No, it was '87.  Summer of '87.  I lost
about three hundred and fifty dollars on it, but it
was just the best night of my life.
BS:	So, '77 you started listening to punk.
Maybe '80, '81 you started becoming interested
in hardcore from America.  And by '87 you find
yourself becoming a concert promoter.
PL:	Yeah.  Just putting on shows upstairs
in a pub.  It was right out in the hills between
Wales and Worcestershire.  Beautiful hills there,
right at the very top of one of those.  I remember
driving up to the Larm gig and there were punks
just walking up these hills.  Way out in the
countryside, going out to see Larm, Heibel and
Heresy.  I guaranteed all the bands their money.
I made a promise, out of pure commitment.  I'd
sooner be out of pocket.   Heibel from Belgium,
Larm from Holland.  Ripcord came and played.  A
local band named Domination Factor also
played.  Heresy played a short set.  They turned
up in cars with only snares and cymbals and
drum sticks and their guitars.  All the amps were
laid on by local friends of mine.  It was a... it was
a life changing night because it really...
Honestly, that night, I believed that the power of
hardcore was slipping in the U.K.  Because here
were the best bands in the world and I was
putting them on for three bucks and people were
sort of refusing to pay that sort of money to see
those bands.  So, I paid all the bands.  I was the
only promoter on the whole tour that paid them
what they asked for.  I made sure they had a
place to stay.  I made sure they had food to eat.
They all came and stayed at my house.  We had
a good night.
BS:	So, by 1987 you find yourself being a
concert promoter.  What bands did you get to
promote over the years?
PL:	The Larm one was the first one.  Then
we had the Brigades from France, but they
never turned up, so we had Atavistic fill in on
that night and they played to a practically empty
hall.  That was with a local band called
Decadence Within.  Who else?  The Maniacs
from Germany were meant to come over with
Inferno.  They never turned up.  I think one of
Inferno was seriously injured in a car crash and
that gig was shelved.  A.O.A. from Scotland, we
put them on.  There were three or four local
bands and we regularly made shows for them.
Arrogance, Decadence Within, Domination
Factor.  That sort of thing.
BS:	Any other bands from outside of the
country?
PL:	I was supposed to do a BGK show and
apparently the singer Renee decided that they
didn't want to do it anymore.  We did a
Negazione show that was absolutely brilliant.
That was a really, really good show.  That place
was jammed for that show.  We did Anti-Sect,
Culture Shock.  Mostly U.K. bands.  The
European bands that were touring at the time
didn't really, sort of... There was a big place in
Birmingham, a guy called Daz Russell used to
put shows on in Birmingham and he really got
most of them.  So, you could go 25 miles up the
road and see them.
PL:	Were there any bands from that era
that you think are forgotten about today or that
broke up without releasing anything?  Bands
that were really good that maybe never got to go
into the recording studio.
BS:	No, not from the U.K.  I think too many
bands from that era did get to go into a
recording studio, which I think is a shame.  I
never liked a lot of those bands around that time.
The cider-swilling, crusty-type bands.  Deviated
Instinct and Doom never did anthing for me at
all.  Genital Deformities were another band that I
thought were a complete waste of time.  I felt
punk was dying back then. I felt that the crusty
thing, these guys walking around, looking like
scarecrows with dreadlocks and stuff didn't have
anything to do with punk rock to me.
BS:	This was maybe '87, '88?
PL:	Yeah.  I felt that Heresy and Ripcord
were the only two U.K. bands I would give any
credit to at all.
BS:	That was a real bad time for hardcore
in the United States, too, '87, '88.  All we had
going on was the Revelation youth crew stuff,
which I never got into.  Youth of Today and
Gorilla Biscuits.
PL:	Dreadful.  Dreadful bands.
BS:	It never appealed to me.  They looked
like jocks and they acted like jocks.
PL:	I totally agree.
BS:	Going to a hardcore show didn't seem
like going to a hardcore show.  It seemed like
going to fifth period gym class.
PL:	I totally agree.  People were
worshipping at the altar of Uniform Choice at
that time.  And you had kids at shows with
hooded jackets on and sweatpants and trainers.
And you had crusty kids with their big, German
army boots and dreadlocks and they'd fight.
And that's just rubbish.  Where was punk rock at
that time?  It was rubbish.  The straightedge
thing was completely irrelevant to me.  I honestly
believe that if you've got a brain, you know how
much you wanna drink.  You know if you wanna
smoke.  You should be able to think for yourself.
And there's all these people taking order.  Punk
was never about being sheep.  It was about
being shepherds.
BS:	That's about the time that I almost quit
hardcore altogether because there was nothing
good coming out of the United States.
PL:	I did quit.  I quit for a long time.
BS:	But for some reason, I ended up
getting turned on to foreign bands and around
'86, '87, '88 is when I started buying bands from
Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Japan, Brazil.
Because that's where hardcore was alive in the
mid to late 80s.
PL:	If it hadn't been for those bands, I
would have completely forgoten about it.  The
only U.S. band I bought for the whole of 1988 --
oh, there was a band called No Fraud and there
was a band called Impulse Manslaughter.  They
were the only two bands from the U.S. that I
bought in 1988.  When Terrorain split up, I kind
of flirted around with what was going on at that
time, which was just really horrible grind.
Carcass, Napalm Death.  All that metal stuff.  And
I just gave up on it altogether for a while after
that.
BS:	How did Terrorain start and what did
you accomplish?  How long were you around?
PL:	Oh, right.  We were around for about
seven or eight months.
BS:	That's a very short time.
PL:	It is a very short time.  There are
various reasons why we split up... I'll just go into
it.  What it was is, I was living with a couple of
guy, a couple of crusty punks, good friends of
mine.  They came home from the city one day
and said, "There's an advert in a music store for
a singer for a hardcore band wanted."  And they
handed me this bit of paper and I phoned the
number that night.  And I said to this guy on the
phone, "I'm 23," and there was just a long
silence and this kid just goes, "Look, we're all
about 16."  So, there was an age difference
straight away.  But we all got together, we
practiced, found out we all got on well with each
other and I couldn't believe what a great, tight
band they were and I wanted to be part of it.
BS:	I didn't realize those guys were so
young.
PL:	Oh, yeah.
BS:	Looking at the pictures, they don't look
that young.
PL:	No.  They were 16, 17 at that time.
BS:	So, you had about seven years on
them.  What did it feel like playing in a band with
people who were seven years younger than
you?
PL:	It didn't make any difference
whatsoever.  None whatsoever.  Because I fed
off their energy and I think they fed off mine.  We
got plenty of shows, we played well together, we
had a lot of fun together, we drunk cider
together.  The difference was, I'd been through
adolescence and they were just kind of starting.
And so, I didn't have time for the drummer's
difficulties with his girlfriend.  The same as I
don't think he had time for hanging around with
someone who was seven years older than him
and trying to tell him what to do.  There were a
lot of differences of opinion.
BS:	So, what did you accomplish in your
seven months?
PL:	I think we had an absolutely brilliant
time.  I got real precious memories.  Hopefully,
all four of us have of that time.  We played great
shows.  We met some great bands.  Decadence
Within were just so cool to us.  Scream were
great guys.  Government Issue were just brilliant
to us.  They were just real decent people. I felt
they were actually one of the most punk bands
we ever played with, Government Issue.  On the
other hand, we also played with Disorder, who
were just great tossers to us, basically.  They
didn't seem to acknowledge our existence.  They
used all our gear.  They smashed one of our
drummers cymbals and just didn't seem to give
a shit.
BS:	And then you recorded the demo.
PL:	We recorded the demo.  We played
with Scream April the third and recorded the
demo April the fourth (1988).  We went in on a
Sunday morning and spent four hours on it,
doing the seven songs.
BS:	Four hours on seven songs?  That's
really fast.
PL:	Yeah, we were tight.
BS:	It sounds good, too.
PL:	That guy.  What happened was there
was a local band named Domination Factor that
lived near me.  And I lent them the money to do a
demo.  And when they brought the demo back,
they had done some reggae-ish type stuff with
their punk rock.  And the guy who was
engineering the tape had dubbed it a little bit so
it kind of had a Bad Brains feel to it and I was
just blown away by the production.  I said, "If
we're going to do anything at all, we're going to
go into this studio."  It's called Birdsong.  It's a
tiny little room.  Probably smaller than your
record store.  Right away underground.  The
drum kitt was set up.  Jazz just got behind it and
we did a quick run through of one song and that
was it.  We just banged straight through it.
BS:	So you recorded it live.
PL:	Oh, yeah.  Recorded it live.  We did one
guitar overdub and then I recorded the vocals.
BS:	I brought the master tape into a
recording studio in Tampa, June 2000, and the
engineer couldn't believe that it was a twelve
year old cassette tape because it sounded so
good.  First of all, it was so well preserved.  And
they couldn't believe how well it was recorded
for 1988.  Next time I see them I'm going to have
to tell them it was recorded in four hours and see
what they think about that.
PL:	It was recorded on a sixteen track.
BS:	This studio in Tampa, you couldn't
record your vocals in four hours.
PL:	I just did them straight.  I had a friend
of mine come and help me with some back up
vocals.  We played the Septic Death album
before we went into the studio and we went in
there and said, "This is what we wanna sound
like."  And we sent the demo out to some other
bands to get some shows with them and
suddenly Naplam Death phone up and say, "We
wanna do our second album where you recorded
your demo."  Extreme Noise Terror came and
said the same.  Doom came and did it.  S.O.B.
came and did it.
BS:	They all recorded at Birdsong?
PL:	They all recorded at Birdsong, yeah.
There's a band called Pungent Stench from
Austria.  They recorded there.  Genital
Deformities did some stuff there.  Decadence
Within.  Prophecy of Doom did some stuff there.
It was just, this guy, Steve Bird.  When he got
behind that desk...  He smoked a lot of pot, but
he could get a drum sound.  The Intense Degree
album was done there and I think the drum
sound on that, it had a real nice sauce pan
sound.  I don't know how the hell he got it.  But
that was actually with Rose Rose's drum kit,
from Japan, when they toured the U.K.
BS:	Now, didn't you record some bands?
PL:	I just worked there.  I just sort of
helped out.  When the bands were there, they all
stayed at my place, so I kind of went into the
studio.  I drove them to the studio and drove
them back.  I made sure they had food and water
and stuff.  I sat there and helped out behind the
desk.  I'd just sit behind him and say, "That
sounds good.  You wanna keep that."  Steve was
a good guy.
BS:	Didn't you do something with S.O.B.?
PL:	They did the "Thrash Night" e.p. in
there, if I remember rightly.  They came in when
they were on tour in the U.K. with Napalm Death.
And we spent from 2:00 in the afternoon to just
after midnight.  So about ten hours and they laid
down all those tracks, completely done.
BS:	And you told me about an altercation
that occurred in the studio during the recording
of, was it the "What's the Truth?" LP or the
"Thrash Night" e.p?  S.O.B.?
PL:	"Thrash Night," yeah.  The drummer
jumped on the bassist and just kicked the shit
out of him.  God knows what it was about, it was
all in Japanese.  I didn't understand it, but it was
pretty nasty.
BS:	Did the bass player quit the band?
PL:	Yeah.
BS:	Right then?
PL:	No.  He did the rest of the tour, I think.
They played in Salisbury and ended up with a
baseball bat and chair fight with the audience.
That was caused by the drummer and the singer,
apparently.
BS:	They were a pretty nasty bunch?
PL:	Oh, they were pretty nasty people.  The
bassist went on to do a band called K.G.G.N.,
that were much better.  I didn't really like S.O.B.  I
liked S.O.B.'s early stuff, like "Leave Me Alone"
and "Don't Be Swindle."  Those were two great
records.  But "What's The Truth?" and "Thrash
Night" didn't really do much for me.
BS:	Was that your first contact with a
Japanese band?
PL:	No.  Rose Rose came over.  Oh, I've
completely forgotten.  I put on a Rose Rose
show at a pub called the Star with Heresy and a
couple of other local bands.  And Rose Rose
came and stayed the night at my place.  Three of
the nicest guys I ever met.  They couldn't speak
hardly a word of English but what manners and
respect.
BS:	There seemed to be a real strong bond
between England and Japan in the late 80s.  How
did that happen?
PL:	I think it's because of the influences.
There was mad love for Disorder, Conflict,
Chaos UK, Discharge, Exploited.  All massive
influences.  G.B.H.  I think it's because of the
hair, to be honest with you.  The studded leather.
I think the look for the Japanese was probably
more important than the music they were doing,
to be honest with you.  The Japanese kids sent
me lists of what they were looking for and it was
all Disorder, G.B.H., Exploited, any of that sort of
stuff I could send to Japan.  And I was getting in
return for it stuff like the Innocents, Swankys,
Real Rockers, the Comes.  All this sort of stuff
was being mailed back to me by these kids who
really didn't give a shit about their own scene.
They just wanted these massive mohawks.
BS:	I could see those Brit bands like
Disorder and Chaos UK being a big influence on
Jap bands.  I can hear it.  But the Japanese took
it and amplified it by ten.  They took the Brit
sound and they put it in a blender and they did it
even better.
PL:	How could anything come out of
England that sounds like Confuse?  Or Kuro?
When I first heard the Kuro 8", it picked me up
and threw me against the wall.  It was the first
record in a long time that did that.  The Japanese
hardcore stuff that I fell in love with with -- the
Comes and GISM and there was stuff like Outo,
Mink Oil and a few other bands like that.  But
then as it got into the 90s, a friend went over to
Japan and he brought me back all of this stuff
like Kuro and Confuse and it was frighteningly
good.  And I'd missed it by about seven or eight
years.  And it renewed my enthusiasm for what
was going on around the world.
BS:	That stufff is impossible to find.  The
only way to get it is to go to Japan.  So little of it
escaped the country.
PL:	The copies I've got, I've held onto for
dear life.
BS:	I think Pushead was probably about
the only American who was able to get Japanese
hardcore in quantity.  He did a small mailorder
for a while.
PL:	That's where I got (GISM)
"Detestation."
BS:	He was probably about the only person
who had Japanese hardcore in America when I
was doing mailorder as a kid.  There were a lot of
good mailorders in the United States.  They had
all of the European stuff but nobody had the Jap
stuff.
PL:	I think Raunch Records had some
stuff, but not very much.  When the "Peace"
album, that big double album that came out.
When I heard the GISM track on there, I saw
Pushead's advert in Maximum Rocknroll, I wrote
off for "Detestation."  Thirteen dollars plus about
six bucks to mail it.  For nineteen bucks I got
myself probably the finest document of hardcore
ever made.
BS:	That was expensive for those times.
Nineteen dollars for an LP.
PL:	Not when you're paying the equivalent
of $25 for an M.I.A. album in the U.K.  I paid
twenty-five bucks for the first Vandals LP.  About
twenty dollars, twenty-five dollars for Butthole
Surfers, Youth Brigade, 7 Seconds, Agnostic
Front.  All those first wave, like "The Crew" and
the Stretch Marks album "What's Ya See?"  I was
paying that sort of money to get a hold of those
things by mailorder.  I was buying anything
American I could get a hold of then and that
sometimes included big mistakes like Red
Kross.
BS:	Some of the early Red Kross stuff is
good.
PL:	I picked up "Teen Babes From
Monsanto" and I don't really wanna talk about it.
(laughs)
BS:	OK, that's where they really went on
the hippy trip.
PL:	Yeah, and then I found "Annette's Got
The Hits."  What a great record.
BS:	That's great!
PL:	Yeah, that's a great record.  That came
out on an album in the U.K. called, "God Bless
America," (Editor's note:  An old Posh Boy
Records comp, also released as "Posh Hits Vol
1.")  It had Agent Orange, Social Distrortion,
Circle Jerks.
BS:	So, were you a big tape trader?
PL:	Not really.  I always liked to have the
records.  I traded tapes with a few kids that
would tape me stuff that I was desperate to hear
but couldn't get.  Ill Repute, Dr Know, Battalion
of Saints, the first Offenders album -- I couldn't
find that anywhere in the U.K.  There was
nothing really in the U.K. during the height of
U.S. hardcore -- between '84 and '87 -- there was
really nothing in the U.K. that was worth sending
back, to be honest with you.  There really wasn't.
I couldn't think of any band off hand, outside of
Heresy, that I would have mailed to a kid in
America.
BS:	What is it like record shopping in the
U.K. now.  What can you find and how much
does it cost?
PL:	It's all mailorder.  You wouldn't find
any stores like yours.  Absolutely none at all.  It
just does not exist.  Aus Rotten are completely
unknown in the U.K. -- unless you're in the know
and you find the underground and do it mail
order.
BS:	Really?  I figured they'd be huge over
there.
PL:	No.
BS:	You tell me the Casualties played over
there to about 15 people.
PL:	Yeah, the Casualties played to a really
lousy audience.  I was really, really disappointed.
I was really looking forward to seeing them.
BS:	I would have figured the Casualties
would be enormous in England.
PL:	I would have thought they'd jam the
place.  The last punk festival, which was called
Across The Decades, which was just a great
weekend for everyone, basically, everyone who
had the Casualties on the back of his jacket was
either French or German.  English people all like
the Casualties -- they hate the lyrics.  They all
think the lyrics are a bit silly, but they're getting
know over there.  They are, I think, the missing
link between Rancid and the underground.  I'm
kind of hoping that it is.  I'm hoping that the kids
who are into Rancid now will see the Casualties
for the image, get into the music and might
hopefully pick up on other bands that are doing
a good job.
BS:	What do you think is the future of
hardcore and punk?
PL:	I think it's -- as more and more of us
who are getting into our thirties who've kept the
banner flying -- I think it's a case of being
welcoming.  Not being patronizing, but
welcoming these enthusiastic young kids into
what we know.  And I hate to use the word, but
educating them.  Playing them the stuff that
really blew us away when we were kids.  Saying,
"Look, there's somewhat more than Lagwagon
here.  You don't need to look like Rancid to be
this way."  And that's the sort of thing that I
would want to promote.
BS:	I try to do that, too, but sometimes it
goes in one ear and out the other.  Once in a
while you get through to somebody.
PL:	I would say so.  Getting back to the
story of the kid with the Mob 47 t-shirt who
hadn't heard the band.  That's a classic example.
That's what I deal with in the U.K. a lot.  There
was a kid walking around with this massive
mohican and I thought, "Great!  I've got to go
and speak to that kid."  And he was like, Rancid,
Bad Religion, NOFX and that was it.  And I said,
"Look, why don't you come back to my place
'cause I've got all kinds of stuff back there.  You
can make a tape and listen to some real good
hardcore."  And he goes, "Uh, no.  I've heard
(Doom) 'Police Bastard.'  I don't need to hear
anything else of that sort of stuff.  It all sounds
the same."  So, I said, "Right.  Fine."  What do
you do?  Am I banging a head against a brick
wall?
BS:	I can't believe that people are that
boring that they don't want to hear something
new.  But listen to this.  I had a kid who used to
live around here who has gone off to college in
New York.  His college professor is probably
nearing 40, late thirties.  His college professor
gave him a whole stack of punk records from the
80s and said, "Take these home and listen to
them.  You like punk, right?  You'll like this
stuff."  The kid took them home, didn't listen to
them.  He called me up and said, "My professor
let me borrow this record, this record, this
record, this record... Which ones should I listen
to?"
PL:	What?
BS:	I said, "It's not costing you anything.
You borrowed the records.  Listen to them all."
He said, "I just want to know which ones I'm
going to like."
PL:	Aaagh!
BS:	I said, "My god, how are you going to
know unless you listen to them for yourself?"
How boring can people be?  Just put on the
damn records and listen to them.  It's fun.  It's
not a chore.  It's not homework.  And if you don't
like it, put on another one.
PL:	You're dealing with a guy here, me,
who so desperately wanted to see the F.U.s.
That would have killed to see Jerry's Kids.  That
would have strangled his own mother to see --
to own an SSD record.  You guys out here are
exposed to it.  You can just go down the road
and see 7 Seconds.  I've never, ever seen 7
Seconds in the U.K.  I never will see them in the
U.K.  I would kill to have some of the records that
are around here.  And for someone to be so
blasse about the punk rock heritage...  America
kept punk rock alive.  Without Discharge there
would have never been any fastcore.  But
without the U.S. bands, Minor Threat, SSD, Dead
Kennedys, I don't think anything would exist
now.  I think it would have all been gone.  You
can't tell me Brother Inferior sound like they're
influenced by U.K. bands -- they're not -- they're
influenced by Boston bands.  I think you can
genuinely hear that.  I don't really believe that
Code 13 is influence by U.K. bands.  I think they
sound like Gang Green -- and more power to
them.  You guys have got such a fucking
heritage here.  Any kid getting into punk right
now in the U.S. should be so fucking proud of
what he's got behind him, that they should be in
your store buying up everything you point your
finger to.  Seriously.  I think right now in the U.S.
there is a lot of enthusiasm.  I don't think that
U.S. bands are putting out bad records right
now.
BS:	I think that if you want to be a real
music fan, you have to know a litttle bit about
where the music came from.  So, I think it's cool
to listen to Aus Rotten, but I think you should
understand where Aus Rotten got their style.  I
think it's cool to listen to fastcore bands,
whoever is being called a fastcore band these
days.  But you should understand that they got
where they are from Heresy.  They got where
they are from Ripcord and Mob 47.  And maybe
you put on a Ripcord record and it's not as fast
as  Fuck On The Beach,  But you've gotta
understand that if there wasn't Ripcord, there
would have never been Fuck On The Beach.
PL:	That's a really good point.
BS:	So, I think you really should know your
history.
PL:	And there have been some completely
indispensable documents to the whole history of
punk and hardcore.  The first few Discharge
records.  The Crucifix album.  The Christ On
Parade first album.  Septic Death.  Anti-Cimex.
Terveet Kadet.  These are vital.  The first Raw
Power album.  It's a vital part of our history and
our culture.  Short of ramming it down kids'
throats, I think that we really should be
encouraging them non-stop.  I kind of really hate
this pettiness that's going around;  it's in the
U.K., as well.  If a young kid turns up at an older
hardcore show, people are like, snickering, "Ha,
ha.  Rancid."  They don't know any different and
they shouldn't have to know any different.  It's
up to us to come up to them and say, "Hey, I'm
glad you like Rancid.  Have you heard Aus
Rotten?"  They can gain from that.
BS:	I think it's important for the new
generation of punks to know the past and to
know where their music came from.  However it's
also important for the people who are getting
older to have some respect for the young group
coming up and to keep listening to new music.  It
kind of saddens me when I go through my
record collection and it practically ends at 1986.
I kind of make myself check out new bands once
in a while.  I don't have a lot of records in my
collection after 1990, and I have very few from
the year 2000.  But there's still some good stuff
happening and I make myself listen to records.
And a lot of them I don't like but every once in a
while I find a real gem.  Like Atrocious Madness
or Wolfpack.  And, shit, there's still a lot of valid
stuff happening.  It's not on Fat Wreck Chords --
you have to dig for it.  So there's something
about staying current.  And there's also
something that the current kids have to do --
respect the past a little bit.
PL:	I think that once again you've made a
real good point.  And I've got to agree.  My
record collection pretty much stopped at the end
of the 80s.  I like to think of myself as really
current, watching all these really enthusiastic
kids, watching The Stiffs (Editor's note:  Plant
City, FL band) on Friday night, just thinking,
"Jesus, these kids have really got it going here."
and then I look at my want list and everything I
am after right now is  basically a fucking reissue.
You know?  Once again, I'll go back to Brother
Inferior, Broken, React -- all great bands.  I'm
really, really into them, but at the same time as
I'm buying a React e.p., I'm also buying a One
Way System reissue, 'cause I want this stuff on
CD, rather than to keep fingering through a
bloody great mountain of vinyl all the time.
BS:	There's still good stuff going on and
it's still worth checking out.
PL:	There is.
BS:	There's a couple of people at the
record swap today that are my age or maybe
even a little younger that haven't heard a new
hardcore band since 1986.  And, you know, there
is life after Adrenalin O.D.  There are other
hardcore bands.  It might not be in the United
States.  You might have to look.  You might have
to go to Japan or South America.  But there are
bands from Japan, South American, Sweden,
Finland nowadays that are as fast or faster than
Minor Threat or The Bad Brains ever were.
Maybe they don't write songs as good.  I've
never heard anybody come up with a riff as good
as Black Flag; I've never heard anyone sing as
passionately as Ian MacKaye, but there's still
some good shit out there worth supporting and
that's why I'm still in it.
PL:	That's why I'm still in it.
BS:	Otherwise, I'm just a museum currator.
PL:	It still drives me nuts.  I live in a city in
England where I am probably the only person
who walks around with patches on my trousers
and Discharge badges and stuff like that.  I'm
probably the only guy that walks around
Worcester like that.  But I will carry on walking
around like that until I die because this stuff... It's
not a question of all I know, it's just all I love.  I
have plenty of other records in my collection.  I
listen to all kinds of different stuff.  A lot of
reggae, some dance, some metal -- I don't give a
shit.  But punk is everything to me.  I just don't
want to let it slip through my fingers and I don't
want to wind up, like you said, being a currator
of a museum.  It isn't ready for that yet.  It's not
so much for me the speed or the riffing or the
vocal style, as much as I love all that.  It's the
commitment to the punk rock dream, if you want
to call it that.  That these kids are turning up
here on a Friday night to shows that cost them
like five bucks to get into.  That kind of
commitment.  Bands that support that sort of
commitment.  The Misfits played on Friday night
-- seventeen dollars.  Jesus christ, seventeen
dollars.  Come on, you know.  My wife turns
around and says to me, "You're gonna pay
seventeen bucks to see a band that hasn't even
got the original singer?"  I mean, OK, I would
have pa